Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: second 70]
#2641178
04/04/19 01:51 PM
04/04/19 01:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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see what your total is (now) & what RPM it maxes out at.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: mopartruckguy]
#2641429
04/05/19 07:13 AM
04/05/19 07:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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30 degrees advance on a high static compression ratio LA 360 “might be” slightly high unless your cam lowers the dynamic compression. Plain old carbon deposits in just one cylinder can cause the pinging.
If it is any help here is a full throttle run recording of a Magnum 5.9 V8 on 89 Octane (actually 89 antiknock index) gasoline. Magnum heads swirl and tumble the air more so they require less spark advance than at least some of the LA cylinder heads.
the information below came from a full throttle run on a 1995 Magnum 5.9V8 Ram pickup: ****** I have been playing around with the 'record' feature of the Actron ScanTool with OBD-I Chrysler Cartridge on my 1995 5.9V8 auto with 3.21 differential gears.
This records and stores 5 readings, 3 seconds apart, of what happened with the PCM computer sensors before you hit the button, and an additional 10 readings 3 seconds apart afterwards
Here is what the ScanTool recorded on some runs at full throttle in 2nd gear up a pretty steep hill { I guess about 4% grade) Outside temperature was in the 70's and the barometric pressure was 29.6 inches Hg.
MPH....RPM....SparkAdv..Vacuum....O2 voltsDC
40......2804.......19..........0.9..........0.86 48......3175.......19..........1.1..........0.90 54......3485.......18..........1.2..........0.90 60......3787.......21..........1.5..........0.90 65......4093.......24..........1.6..........0.90 71......4471.......24..........1.7..........0.92 76......4785.......28..........1.7..........0.90 80......5040.......28..........1.8..........0.90
Comments: (a) I can't explain why the degrees of advance went down from 19 to 18 around 3400 rpm, but it read the same on two runs. Notice this occurs near the engine Torque peak, where cylinder pressures are highest.
(b) note that the NTK made O2 sensor stays fairly rich at 0.90 volts. 14.7 air/fuel mixture is at 0.40 to 0.50 volts, so that reading confirms rich mixture. By design full throttle stock Magnum 5.9 V8 air to fuel is a very rich 11.8
1995 FSM says 5.2 and 5.9 V8 static compression ratio is 9.1 Later year 1998 Dodge advertising dropped 5.9 V8 SCR to 8.9 With the 13 cc dish pistons typically 0.050 in the hole “real world” static might be around 8.7
Last edited by 360view; 04/05/19 07:18 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: mopartruckguy]
#2641501
04/05/19 11:02 AM
04/05/19 11:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528 SW CO
HemiSportFury
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
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Look for a vacuum leak, cracked vacuum hoses, bad pcv valve etc. What do the plugs look like (assuming you do not have an O2 gauge installed)?
'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60 '57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process '19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite '03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: HemiSportFury]
#2641512
04/05/19 11:20 AM
04/05/19 11:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Start with the plugs. They will tell you many things. You can even post pics if you have questions.
Years ago I had a warm 413 that ran good. Then one day it just started pinging on me. this particular setup was finicky about the gasoline you fed it so I always filled it with quality super, usually Shell SU2000 93 octane. Other brand super would sometimes ping but not Shell. Or for that matter Diamond Shamrock 96 octane, but finding that was a rarity.
Anyway, the pinging started despite the fact I had quality gas init.
Pulled the plugs and found that the fancy platinum tip plugs I put in, Bosch brand, had a material defect in three of them. The porcelain around the center electrode was gone. It was there when I installed them. That would cause the electrode to get red hot and make the engine ping. New Champions and all was well.
When things work fine then suddenly act up you gotta ask, "what changed?"
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: Supercuda]
#2641513
04/05/19 11:22 AM
04/05/19 11:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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When things work fine then suddenly act up you gotta ask, "what changed?" X2, that's what I was trying to decipher
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: mopartruckguy]
#2641737
04/05/19 09:03 PM
04/05/19 09:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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All good ideas and well appreciated. It may be a while before I get a chance to dig in, but I will look at all the things you all have suggested. Thanks. IMO, you need to start with plotting mechanical timing vs. rpm. Then if using vacuum advance, measure or estimate the amount of additional advance the is added when cruising. To do that you'll need a vacuum gage at minimum, and a mity vac makes it easier. The reason you need to do this is to find the timing in the driving conditions being discussed. High compression engine does a better job of keeping heat in the chamber and may not need as much lead. The goal is always the same. Enough lead to for the maxium pressure through the most efficent crank angles.
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Re: 360 ping help!
[Re: BareAssBob]
#2641888
04/06/19 10:12 AM
04/06/19 10:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,816 Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
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Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,816
Between Houston & Galveston TX
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As others have said, check your plugs.
Story time regarding gas, with how quickly and easily gas goes bad nowadays, I'm always leery of using premium because it doesn't have a high turn over rate as regular does, so it sits at the station much longer before getting a fresh batch.
Back when my wagon was my DD, I always used mid grade or premium because of the 440. One day I HAD to use the cheap regular. My wagon didn't ping bad, just occasionally under full throttle or under load, so imagine my surprise when it didn't ping at all with the regular in it. I tried premium again, the ping came back. I only used regular from there forward. (not a 'built' 440, just an internally stock '77 440).
John
The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
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