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Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: CuriousYella70] #263534
03/24/09 09:53 AM 03/24/09 09:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
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Retired now in Tennessee
Chi_Town_Runner Offline
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Quote:

-- just sucks because I have access to so many 23 splines lol



If you have access to so many 23 splines, why not just try the 23 spilne. 4-Speed transmissions are pretty simple to change out. If the 23 spline gives out then step up to the 18 spline.

But I really think the 23 spline will hold up.

Good luck
Frank

Remember - 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 rights make a left!
Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: Chi_Town_Runner] #263535
03/24/09 10:27 AM 03/24/09 10:27 AM
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sixbbl69 Offline
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there must be some reason Chrysler put 18 spline transmissions in 440 hp and hemi cars in late 60's.must have run out of 23 spline.

Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: sixbbl69] #263536
03/24/09 10:38 AM 03/24/09 10:38 AM
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Colorado
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CuriousYella70 Offline OP
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Please dont 'assume' that i'm willing to throw all sorts of coin out for a date coded dana 60 -- a buddy has one and is giving it to me for under $500 because we've been buddies -- i'm not different then anyone else on the board, I dont have all sorts of $$ to throw at this car, but if i'm going to do it, i'm gonna do it right the first time but thank you for your opinion.

Sounds like i'll go with the 23 spline -- no one here seems to have had any issues with them or has been able to break them.

So then curiosity is still striking me -- why did Hemi and 440hp cars receive the 18spline?
Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: hemisurfer] #263537
03/24/09 10:43 AM 03/24/09 10:43 AM
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Newfoundland Canada
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Quote:

Just curious how many 23 spline input shafts have you guys broken or twisted?







The best question on this post thus far and no answers to boot.

Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: Mopar1] #263538
03/24/09 10:57 AM 03/24/09 10:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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My

  • For now run the 23 spline, you'll never hurt it on a street car.
  • When you have the money buy a Passon 4 speed, they are awesome, gear spread isn't perfect but it's not terrible either.
  • Send me one of your A-body 4 speeds, a late summer 1970 assembly date please

    • Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: sixbbl69] #263539
    03/24/09 11:00 AM     03/24/09 11:00 AM
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    Florida
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    hemisurfer Offline
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    Brewers and Passon weighed in I guess they don't know what they are talking about.

    Factory SS and Pro Stocks required a factory installed transmission back in the day. I would assume this has something to do with it. Perhaps Mopar wanted to reduce warranty repairs from knuckleheads that did dumb things at the track.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If anybody has a 23 spline tranny that will work in a 69 B Body let me know.

    I am willing to shell out 100 bucks for each tranny in good condition and I will take them away. Good deal since they are prone to fail. PM me if your interested.

    Last edited by hemisurfer; 03/24/09 11:12 AM.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #263540
    03/24/09 11:20 AM     03/24/09 11:20 AM
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    CuriousYella70 Offline OP
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    Quote:

    My

  • For now run the 23 spline, you'll never hurt it on a street car.
  • When you have the money buy a Passon 4 speed, they are awesome, gear spread isn't perfect but it's not terrible either.
  • Send me one of your A-body 4 speeds, a late summer 1970 assembly date please



    • lol no problem Scott, i'll get right on that! I actually might have a late 70 set of pedals, not sure though so i'll check for ya -- What's up with not coming up and saying hi at MATS?? I know you saw me sitting behind dads Plum Crazy Challenger in the KU hat

    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: CuriousYella70] #263541
    03/24/09 11:23 AM     03/24/09 11:23 AM
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Spokane Washington
    ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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    Actually I didn't see you or I would have. The whole event was a blur, I was in the ICCA tent most of the time and when I escaped I was pretty much on a dead run to see as much as I could on limited time. I'm good on pedals, just need a dated bell and trans for the Dustbag
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #263542
    03/24/09 11:27 AM     03/24/09 11:27 AM
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    Colorado
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    CuriousYella70 Offline OP
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    lol you're telling me -- I only had Friday to run through the whole show, had to fly back Friday night. Scored a crap load of parts for the R/T though which was awesome -- even talked the guy who has half of vendor row down on all of his pieces, never thought that would happen. I'll keep an eye on the trans/bell for ya --

    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: CuriousYella70] #263543
    03/24/09 11:31 AM     03/24/09 11:31 AM
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    Spokane Washington
    ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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    I was surprised as well, found a perfectly dated Pass 71 340 ex manifold ($150.00) a MINT with choke 1,000 CFM Competition TQ carb ($75.00) a 70 dated 340 Bell housing ($50.00) a 71 23 spline A-body trans with shifter and linkage ($150.00) and a few other trinkets. It seemed like good luck to me, not many vendors but I found nearly everything I was on the hunt for at reasonable prices.




    *I still need one more bell & trans for my buddy's car which is why I'm still looking.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #263544
    03/25/09 11:22 AM     03/25/09 11:22 AM
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    theclutcher Offline
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    I run a 309 non od 23 spline with a 3.54 Dana.
    Same 1st ratio as a 2.66 and 4.10.
    no problems and nice to cruise.
    Dont think you'll hurt the trans till you start putting meat on pavement.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: sixbbl69] #263545
    03/25/09 11:33 AM     03/25/09 11:33 AM
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote:

    there must be some reason Chrysler put 18 spline transmissions in 440 hp and hemi cars in late 60's.must have run out of 23 spline.

    Here is my take on that. The most violent of all Hemis were built in '64-5 and those Race Hemis found every weak link in the driveline which brought about the 18 spline trans and Dana in late '65 or so. Funny, because nothing had that kind of drivetrain breaking power after '65 except for the Hemi A-bodies.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: CJK440] #263546
    03/25/09 11:46 AM     03/25/09 11:46 AM
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    Quote:

    The other thing to consider is not all 23 spline's are the same. The steeper the first gear, the weaker the box. A 3.09 first gear is the weakest.

    Not really an issue. You will break third gear way before slightly weaker low ratios become a problem. This may be something to consider on weak transmissions like the BW T-5 but not A833's.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: 446acuda] #263547
    03/25/09 12:31 PM     03/25/09 12:31 PM
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    Houston Texas
    PAINT IT BLACK Offline
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    I run nearly 500 hp with a 23 spline and never worry at all about my 23 spline. I've never run slicks though... but I doubt there would be a problem.

    That being said, I am going to slap in a Passon's OD gearset soon.

    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: Mopar1] #263548
    03/25/09 12:38 PM     03/25/09 12:38 PM

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    Quote:

    Quote:

    Just curious how many 23 spline input shafts have you guys broken or twisted?







    The best question on this post thus far and no answers to boot.



    Well for one thing I hadn't been back to this post. I didn't realize that I gave the impression that a 23 spline was ready to break at any instant. In fact, towards the end of my S Cal days, I ran a 440 Cuda into the 11's with one. What I MEANT to imply that PROBABLY if you were a FULL TIME racer, and assuming you ran something with a lot of power you MIGHT not want to run one.

    I stick by my guns about the Chrysler type OD, though. In "high" (really third) you are spinning a bronze bushed bear against a mainshaft for long periods of time, either that or you "really" have a three speed.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #263549
    03/25/09 12:39 PM     03/25/09 12:39 PM
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    phantomx Offline
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    You might check to see if there is a Gear Vendor available for the 833. It won't look stock from underneath, but you will still have 4 non-O/D gears instead of just 3. Unless someone looked under the car, they'd never know it was there.
    Travis..

    70 GTX project, orig 440-4, 4 spd, track pack, FC7, stripper/street racer special.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: phantomx] #263550
    03/25/09 01:36 PM     03/25/09 01:36 PM
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    CuriousYella70 Offline OP
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    Well just to clarify things -- the Charger will not be pounded on the race track, it'll be a show car, occasional highway or cruise car, and from time to time I'll take her to the track but it's not a full blown race car. So it sounds like the 23 spline should be just fine until I get the $$ for a Passon.

    Thanks for the help and clarification guys -- it doesn't sound like anyone's had a problem with the 23 spline and why shell out 2grand for an 18spline if its not needed?

    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: phantomx] #263551
    03/25/09 06:19 PM     03/25/09 06:19 PM
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    Bill MeLater Offline
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    Way to go Phantomx...Now we're all gonna know it's there....BTW why is it that more splines = more tooth contact = stronger, everywhere but A833 input shaft???

    5118550-005.JPG (109 downloads)
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: Bill MeLater] #263552
    03/25/09 06:29 PM     03/25/09 06:29 PM
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    hemisurfer Offline
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    Check out the diameter of the 18 spline. It's overkill...I believe the hemi trans is coarse tooth input the gears are fine tooth for more contact area and the gears are brass bushed to reduce friction.

    Last edited by hemisurfer; 03/25/09 06:30 PM.
    Re: 4 Speed -- What would you do / Choose? [Re: Bill MeLater] #263553
    03/25/09 06:33 PM     03/25/09 06:33 PM
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    rabid scott Offline
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    Quote:

    Way to go Phantomx...Now we're all gonna know it's there....BTW why is it that more splines = more tooth contact = stronger, everywhere but A833 input shaft???



    18 spline input is physically larger. 23 spline is 1", 18 is what, 1 1/8"?
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