440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
#2633397
03/16/19 03:32 PM
03/16/19 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,499 Slidell, LA
Plum440
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OP
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Slidell, LA
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Having a problem with excessive blue smoke at startup (eventually goes away) and notice it again with a hard acceleration after off-gas cruising to a stop. Took valve cover off and noticed valve seals are “up” on the valve..see picture. Is this normal? Thanks Guys!
70 Challenger, 440, 4-speed, pLuM cRaZy 71 VW Super Beetle Convertible, Lemon Yellow A couple of Jeeps…
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: Clanton]
#2633408
03/16/19 04:45 PM
03/16/19 04:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,564 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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master
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God's Country Maryland
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Those umbrella seals move with the valves so that is normal. The valves need some lubrication or they would lock up. If you're getting a lot of smoke your guides are most likely getting worn beyond spec.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2633418
03/16/19 05:32 PM
03/16/19 05:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,739 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Those umbrella seals move with the valves so that is normal. The valves need some lubrication or they would lock up. If you're getting a lot of smoke your guides are most likely getting worn beyond spec. Pull one of the plugs and see if they are shiny or dull If shiny there is oil on them, if dull look some where else for the problem
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: Clanton]
#2633420
03/16/19 05:39 PM
03/16/19 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,499 Slidell, LA
Plum440
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
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Slidell, LA
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Plugs are good. Tan and normal except for #8.
70 Challenger, 440, 4-speed, pLuM cRaZy 71 VW Super Beetle Convertible, Lemon Yellow A couple of Jeeps…
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: Plum440]
#2633422
03/16/19 05:43 PM
03/16/19 05:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,499 Slidell, LA
Plum440
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
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Posts: 1,499
Slidell, LA
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Thanks all for the replies. I’ll keep digging....
70 Challenger, 440, 4-speed, pLuM cRaZy 71 VW Super Beetle Convertible, Lemon Yellow A couple of Jeeps…
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: Plum440]
#2633427
03/16/19 05:55 PM
03/16/19 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
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try the big block chevy umbrella. they are a little longer than the mopar umbrella and I prefer them. also, it looks like your using the later b-engine "umbrellas"; they're too short.
Last edited by lewtot184; 03/16/19 05:57 PM.
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2633428
03/16/19 06:11 PM
03/16/19 06:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Look to see if the intake valves have those same seals, or if they’re longer umbrellas, or the positive style seal.
The short umbrellas are for ex use only, and if the guide clearance is on the loose side, you’ll get some smoke on start up.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2633558
03/17/19 09:51 AM
03/17/19 09:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,564 God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
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The exhaust valve seals are shorter because the exhaust valves need more lubrication than the intake valves. Exhaust valves get a lot hotter than intake valves and there is no vacuum pull on the exhaust like the intake. The vacuum pull on the intake helps pull some oil between the stem and guide to help lubricate, there is no vacuum pull on the exhaust side so Chrysler made the seal shorter to help get a little more oil to the exhaust valve guides so they don't seize. I wouldn't recommend using the tall seals on the exhaust valves or you'll get worn out guides and/or sticking valves, they need more oil than the intake valves.
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: dvw]
#2633582
03/17/19 10:37 AM
03/17/19 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’m pretty sure up until early/mid-70’s that “from the factory” the BB heads had the long umbrella seals on both intake and exhaust.
Someone here probably knows more about that than I do.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2633594
03/17/19 10:57 AM
03/17/19 10:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
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I’m pretty sure up until early/mid-70’s that “from the factory” the BB heads had the long umbrella seals on both intake and exhaust.
Someone here probably knows more about that than I do. '452's had the short "umbrella" for the exhaust; if you want to call it an umbrella, and the "positive" push on for the intake. what I call the standard umbrella is noticeably longer than what's in the picture. the bb chevy is just about 1/8" longer than the standard mopar umbrella and I use them. looking at the picture I wonder if that's an aftermarket retainer? if so it may be clobbering the intake seals with a performance cam. I do see performance springs so there may be more to the story than the OP has stated.
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: lewtot184]
#2633737
03/17/19 03:04 PM
03/17/19 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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The Mopar performance “viton” valve seal package came with 8 short and 8 long umbrellas(P4120492).
In the Fel-Pro catalog the long umbrellas are listed as the “early” style(SS12419).
Since the bottom of the seal is hidden by the spring/damper in the OP’s pic, it’s hard to say for sure which style seal it is, but I thought it seemed like it was the “short” style on that ex valve.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 440 Valve Seal - Is this right?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2633797
03/17/19 07:01 PM
03/17/19 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
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usa
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The Mopar performance “viton” valve seal package came with 8 short and 8 long umbrellas(P4120492).
In the Fel-Pro catalog the long umbrellas are listed as the “early” style(SS12419).
Since the bottom of the seal is hidden by the spring/damper in the OP’s pic, it’s hard to say for sure which style seal it is, but I thought it seemed like it was the “short” style on that ex valve. there's a third type of factory seal. it fits the '452 head intake boss. it's a push on neoprene and reminds you of a positive seal.
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