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Ignition timing questions ( a little long) #262886 03/23/09 12:19 PM 03/23/09 12:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey OP mopar
Jamey OP mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	Ok It's been a while since I've had anything running and finally got my car running again. It is a 440, edelbrock rpm heads ported by modern cylinderhead, comp solid roller 236/564 intake 242/570 exhaust, 10.5 compression. I'm running a holley anhilator ignition with a mopar distributor with one medium spring and one light spring. I have tried to set my timing to 35 degrees as a starting point, but my car starts to pop through the carb and is very hard to start. If the timing is brought up to 45 degrees or more, it starts easily and runs better, but isn't that way too much timing? I did degree the cam and the balancer is brand new, so I don't thing the timing marks moved. What am I doing wrong? Thanks Jamey

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262887 03/23/09 12:31 PM 03/23/09 12:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	maybe re check your firing order sometimes it's easy to mix them especially 5 7 . All plug wires on?? Then you may want to try another light (or a fixed one marking 35 so you can see it) then your timing mark on the crank but that will require a piston stop (on compression stroke don't want to get messed up in valves) and you are on number 1 (drivers side front) some off brands use pass front as 1 I think?? seen people use two or get on the wrong wire. been around enough to do most of it myself

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Dodgem] #262888 03/23/09 12:39 PM 03/23/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey OP mopar
Jamey OP mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	I'm pretty sure I have the firing order correct, but will check again. I know I have the number one on the drivers side. I am using a timing light with a dial on it, could that be and issue? I've heard of people with msd's having and issue with that.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262889 03/23/09 12:45 PM 03/23/09 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I'm pretty sure I have the firing order correct, but will check again. I know I have the number one on the drivers side. I am using a timing light with a dial on it, could that be and issue? I've heard of people with msd's having and issue with that. Alot of the new ignition systems dont like the dial back timing lights... try another light

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262890 03/23/09 11:46 PM 03/23/09 11:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,309 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,309 Bend,OR USA	Did you verify the the TDC mark on the dampener and the timing cover with the #1 or 6 piston at TDC with a head off If not you could have a mismatch on the dampener and a ealy BB timing cover(the ones with the straight timing tab and the TDC neasr the top of the tab versus the later ones witht he curve timing tab with the zero mark in the center of the tab Let us know your results, those kinds of problems can drive you,and us, nuts Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Cab_Burge] #262891 03/24/09 09:20 AM 03/24/09 09:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Mr P-body is right lots going to this http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/timinglight.html and then making a mark (or using timing tape) for a more accurate timing.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Dodgem] #262892 03/24/09 09:31 AM 03/24/09 09:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	Quote: Mr P-body is right lots going to this http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/timinglight.html and then making a mark (or using timing tape) for a more accurate timing. And so is Cab. You have to varify that your timing marks are correct.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: BobR] #262893 03/25/09 08:54 AM 03/25/09 08:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey OP mopar
Jamey OP mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	I will double check my timing marks. I did try another timing light yesterday, and it didn't make any difference. Thanks guys.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262894 03/25/09 01:06 PM 03/25/09 01:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 312 Alberta, Can JUST_N_TIME enthusiast
JUST_N_TIME enthusiast Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 312 Alberta, Can	along with what all the rest said, make sure you pick a location for the timing lead wire to connect to the #1 wire that is remote from the rest, otherwise it may pick up a false signal from another wire. That is 35* total mechanical - no vacuum.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: JUST_N_TIME] #262895 03/25/09 01:31 PM 03/25/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	if it's back firing through the carb on tip in try some bigger squirters and a brown cam. it could very well be a lean condition if your sure on the timing issues.

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Quicktree] #262896 03/25/09 03:30 PM 03/25/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,791 Hamilton, Ontario Canada Magnum master
Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,791 Hamilton, Ontario Canada	Sounds like your car needs more initial timing. It liked when you brought the total from 35 to 45 but like you say. 45 is too much. To keep the big timing and bring the total back down. Shorten the travel of the distributor weights. It's probably want something around 15 deg initial. 69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Magnum] #262897 03/25/09 03:49 PM 03/25/09 03:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey OP mopar
Jamey OP mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	How much should I shorten the slots for initial timing? Quicktree, I was thinking maybe it could be the carb also. I have just started tuning this thing and will give that a try once I know my timing is not an issue. Thanks Guys

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262898 03/25/09 11:55 PM 03/25/09 11:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 878 hudson valley n.y. G GEORGE68HEMIRR super street
GEORGE68HEMIRR super street G Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 878 hudson valley n.y.	Quote: Ok It's been a while since I've had anything running and finally got my car running again. It is a 440, edelbrock rpm heads ported by modern cylinderhead, comp solid roller 236/564 intake 242/570 exhaust, 10.5 compression. I'm running a holley anhilator ignition with a mopar distributor with one medium spring and one light spring. I have tried to set my timing to 35 degrees as a starting point, but my car starts to pop through the carb and is very hard to start. If the timing is brought up to 45 degrees or more, it starts easily and runs better, but isn't that way too much timing? I did degree the cam and the balancer is brand new, so I don't thing the timing marks moved. What am I doing wrong? what rpms are you running to get you total timing??

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Dodgem] #262899 03/26/09 12:21 AM 03/26/09 12:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Mr P-body is right lots going to this http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/timinglight.html and then making a mark (or using timing tape) for a more accurate timing. Thats the light I use.... love it... so simple... even I can use it

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Jamey] #262900 03/26/09 01:46 AM 03/26/09 01:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,309 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,309 Bend,OR USA	Quote: How much should I shorten the slots for initial timing? what type of distributor are you using? If it is a stock Mopar production distributor look on the advance plate that the weights go into, it will probally have a number stamped into it, that will be the amount of mechanical advance that distributor has, IE 13 means 13 degrees mechanical advance in distributor degrees which equals 26 crankshaft degrees. You can measure the length of the slot and subtract the diameter of the pins that fit in there and then decide how much you want to shorten the slot IE if it was 13 degrees and you wanted 8 distributor degrees total mechanical advance(16 crankshaft degrees) then shorten the slot about 1/4 to 1/3 the original length, I thank that is the amount anyways. That will allow you to set the initial timing at 16 to 20 degrees and end up with 32 to 36 degrees total timing, which works pretty good on most BB Mopar wedge motors the last I heard IHTHs Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Ignition timing questions ( a little long) [Re: Cab_Burge] #262901 03/26/09 10:59 AM 03/26/09 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524 J Jamey OP mopar
Jamey OP mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 524	I have tried the rpms at 2500 and 3000. I had a moment to check what cam I had for the accelorator pump and it was a brown one that was suggested. Both of the squirters are 35's. So I had a chance to change those out of curiosity and simplicity and it actually improved. I believe my carb is leaning out. I still am going to double check my timing marks when I have time.

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