Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615461
02/01/19 04:53 AM
02/01/19 04:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I haven't raced at a NHRA division or National event in the last ten years so Comp Eliminator may now be short on racers as I seem to remember a race last year in National dragster that had only 3 cars in Comp Eliminator It use to be a 16 or 32 car field only and not all racers qualified to race at those races that exceeded the field size I can remember 50 + cars enter for a 16 car feild 130 stockers, 130+ S/G and so on You needed to be at least .55 under to qualify, then the instant comp adjustment if you ran more than .58 under would make your car obsolete from one run A lot of those racers where holding .85+ under their indexes to make sure they wouldn't get factor out of the race before the money runs
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/01/19 04:57 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615512
02/01/19 11:31 AM
02/01/19 11:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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NHRA clutching desperately at vanishing market.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615552
02/01/19 12:48 PM
02/01/19 12:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413 Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen
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Newark,Ohio
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this is because comp is a dyeing class. I think at the columbus divisional we had like 15 car in comp. Comp now has personal indexes to help get some more people to show up and be competitive.
79 Dodge Aspen 12.265 at 109.75 MPH
67 Satellite NSS/E 11.83 @ 110
1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi
3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street. '07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615587
02/01/19 02:30 PM
02/01/19 02:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,769 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
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Mr. Helpful
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A lot of the Hemi guys don't like bracket racing. The FS and AH guys like to race first to the finish wins, hence the popularity of the Shootouts. I believe Welker and Comella have run their cars in Comp in A/SM last year. This year they have their own class. The 8.75 index is not going to allow them to be competitive though, if they have to run SS/AH legal..
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615600
02/01/19 03:01 PM
02/01/19 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I looked through some qualifying sheets from last year.
The Comp fields are dwindling big time. I saw one event that had a field of 3, another was 5.
I don’t see how it’s feasible to keep that going.
By comparison, at the same event that had 3 cars in Comp, there were 42 in Stock.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615613
02/01/19 03:27 PM
02/01/19 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,398 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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CIC will always be in affect in Comp. Don't think the AH guys will care given the index the FSS guys that may be a different story. Im sure it has a lot to do with input from the big 3 getting those cars more exposure. As for AH I think its already been mentioned those guys for the most part don't wanna bracket race, so this would give them another option.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615620
02/01/19 03:57 PM
02/01/19 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I thought if you went quicker than .6 under the index, the index for the class got changed before the next pass.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2615623
02/01/19 04:00 PM
02/01/19 04:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,103 Yes
sixpakdodge
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I thought if you went quicker than .6 under the index, the index for the class got changed before the next pass. That is for the "personal" index, and does not apply until the following event. It is also only based upon runs in eliminations. They still grade the overall index based upon all the passes made in that class for the year, at year end. If you ran 8.05 on the 8.75 index at Orlando this weekend, it would change your "personal" index to 8.65 for the next race you entered. The index for everyone else would remain 8.75.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615624
02/01/19 04:02 PM
02/01/19 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,398 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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Yep there is a personal and a class index. Not sure how successful it has been as most the guys running comp want to be THE fast guy, but its been in place for a few years now.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615625
02/01/19 04:05 PM
02/01/19 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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From what I just read(don’t know if it’s current or not), the personal index hit starts at .50 under. The permanent hits start at .610 under, and are on a sliding scale. https://www.dragzine.com/features/car-fe...ion-eliminator/ Edit....... that appears to be out of date. The new rule seems to be personal hit at .610, permanent hit at .710 during eliminations.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615671
02/01/19 06:22 PM
02/01/19 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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The way I read it, the cars must remain in ss and fs legal trim........ so raising the cr wouldn’t be legal.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615708
02/01/19 08:33 PM
02/01/19 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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The way I read what I believe is the current incarnation of the CIC........ you want to run(as good as) .609 under........ and have that be quick enough to get it done.
I looked through the Hemi challenge times for Indy and the Dutch....... I didn’t see any 8.20’s.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615719
02/01/19 09:05 PM
02/01/19 09:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,769 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
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If you run over .50 under in eliminations, you get hit with the amount that you went under for the rest of the event. Over .50 under that and you get hit again. It's not permanent until you go .60 under. They are always tinkering with the CIC, but I believe that's correct.
Qualifying doesn't count. At the last race in Pomona, 23 cars showed up, #1 qualifier went .72 under and the #21 guy was .488. So a Hemi car in AH/SM, the new class designation, going .35 under at 8.40, is going to need some help.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: theraif]
#2615723
02/01/19 09:14 PM
02/01/19 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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It appears the current CIC doesn’t kick in at all until .610 under, in eliminations.
At .710 under, during eliminations, there’s a permanent index adjustment.
It certainly doesn’t look like a ss/ah car will be very competitive at the typical ET’s they run.
I wonder how many takers they’ll get.
As per nhra 2016: “A new “Personal Index” is being added to the CIC system, to decrease the potential for class index adjustments when favorable conditions at an event may contribute to extraordinary performances that may not be the case in other parts of the country. The personal index will be applied when an individual records a .610 under or greater run during eliminations. The class index will only be adjusted when a run of .710 or greater is recorded during eliminations. Both will be adjusted on .01 increments with no plateaus up to a .10 maximum adjustment per event to a class index.”
What isn’t clear to me at the moment is whether this particular CIC rule only pertains to runs made during what are deemed “mineshaft” conditions, of if it’s just the way the CIC is now being done.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2615873
02/02/19 04:58 AM
02/02/19 04:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,952 northwest USA
NANKET
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If you run over .50 under in eliminations, you get hit with the amount that you went under for the rest of the event. Over .50 under that and you get hit again. It's not permanent until you go .60 under. They are always tinkering with the CIC, but I believe that's correct.
Qualifying doesn't count. At the last race in Pomona, 23 cars showed up, #1 qualifier went .72 under and the #21 guy was .488. So a Hemi car in AH/SM, the new class designation, going .35 under at 8.40, is going to need some help. Yes this is correct. NHRA isn't doing the AH cars any favors with this move.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: NANKET]
#2615874
02/02/19 05:34 AM
02/02/19 05:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
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If you run over .50 under in eliminations, you get hit with the amount that you went under for the rest of the event. Over .50 under that and you get hit again. It's not permanent until you go .60 under. They are always tinkering with the CIC, but I believe that's correct.
Qualifying doesn't count. At the last race in Pomona, 23 cars showed up, #1 qualifier went .72 under and the #21 guy was .488. So a Hemi car in AH/SM, the new class designation, going .35 under at 8.40, is going to need some help. Yes this is correct. NHRA isn't doing the AH cars any favors with this move. And the manufacturers aren't looking to move any AH cars........coincidence ? I'm not so sure.
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Re: Factory Showdown and SS/AH allowed in Comp
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2615941
02/02/19 01:42 PM
02/02/19 01:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,529 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
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Comp is still a bracket race. Ask Dan Fletcher... Well Mr. Fletcher has forgotten more about all of drag racing than I will ever know. However I don't see where anybody can say Comp is a bracket race. 1. You don't set your dial. 2. There are no breakouts. Its handicap racing for sure, but not bracket racing. Another observation is that I think this makes sense for the FS/XX cars as they only have eight races a year in FS/XX trim. However the SS/AH cars can run Super Stock at every national event. Between that and the tough index that does not make much sense to me but I might be missing something.
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