Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: dangina]
#2609419
01/20/19 05:50 PM
01/20/19 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I would suggest a HT racing fluid, like: https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeFluid/BrakeFluidit's a lot less expensive then most alternatives for brake fade. You have many similar choices available. Ducting Drums properly is a lot of work/modification, almost easier to install discs (you need to also get cooling air inside the drum), and if you run normal sized & TW range tires, on a heavy car (RR is in the heavy range IMO)), you will be very close to brake fade. It's not a lot of fun or learnful to drive at the edge of brake fade. Best book I have come across on this topic: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Fast-Racers-Why-Winning/dp/1451558759It's more about the approach and why, not what. Best very important concept stressed: "everything effects everything else"
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: Skeptic]
#2610214
01/22/19 12:54 AM
01/22/19 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
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Thanks for the brake fluid follow up.. I know we just won't be able to get discs on it for this season - which is only one track day, June 22nd at NYST. We'll get through it... I'll also look at that racing book - I def advanced my skills with the lessons taught in Skip Barbers 'Going Faster', but nothing wrong with more info. Good to see you've gotten some more feedback, I'll third Andy F's book, I've got two copies myself, I misplaced the first one and bought a replacement, it's that valuable. I'm not even a B body guy, but most everything still applies. I'll also say track time is good time, it's easy to build-or buy, a car that is far more capable that the driver. Just received my copies from Amazon (wanted to buy directly, but got redirected).. starting to read tonight.. Best, - Art
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: Mattax]
#2610680
01/22/19 09:23 PM
01/22/19 09:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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All very true, but anybody serious about track time, does fresh BF every weekend outing or at first sign of fade as the fluid likely has already been cooked. Wet boiling point in this application is irrelevant IMO.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: CKessel]
#2611816
01/24/19 09:49 PM
01/24/19 09:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,164 Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,164
Los Angeles, CA
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And buy Andy F's book on updating the b-body suspensions. Lots of great info in there. I'll second this.
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: AndyF]
#2612128
01/25/19 04:27 PM
01/25/19 04:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46 raleigh, NC
mcmopar1
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
raleigh, NC
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And buy Andy F's book on updating the b-body suspensions. Lots of great info in there. That is what I was thinking. Why would I type a reply when I already typed a whole book? Andy, Do you answer messages? I was looking for your extended water neck with a port months ago, tried to reach you through this site and e-mail to no avail. Luckily they are on your site now!
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2614701
01/30/19 06:55 PM
01/30/19 06:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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I've got the following on my 68 RR. 6.1 Hemi with a cam and ported heads 475 crank hp easy Megasquirt 3 EFI gold box 23 spline 833 2.94 8.75" Battery in back Mopar 1.22" t bars Hotchkis 2255 sways Mopar XHD leaf springs (both RH) Hotchkis shackles Mancini Lowering spring front hangers braced stock lower control arms RMS strut rods Koni Red shocks Firm Feel stage 3 steering box Stock UCA with problem solver bushings 14.25" LX rotor with a viper caliper 18x9 Mustang wheels with 6.18 BS and a 1" spacer for 5.18" BS 275/35-18 tires all around. I'm going to get a set of 18x9 5" BS torq thrusts to get rid of spacers. The work is in progress. I still need a set of wheels without an adapter and a rear disc kit, plus I need to install the sway bars. The car is getting a bunch of rust repair from the vinyl top issues, but it was destined to be a grand touring and amateur road course car. I've also got Corbeau buckets for the seats and I'm going to 3 point belts.
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2617234
02/05/19 11:24 AM
02/05/19 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
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Thanks fr sharing your 68 RR build Alex, looks great and there’s lots of information for my brother to reference and consider.
And a huge Thanks to AndyF, your B-Body Perf Upgrades book is absolutely as helpful as you guys all said it would be. Also gotta add it’s really well written, which can be lacking in many similar books. A lot of the advice also applies to cars across the board, with the added bonus of featuring a bunch of Moparts friends’ cars .. What’s not to love? Well done.
Cheers, - Art
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 02/05/19 12:08 PM.
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2670606
06/27/19 10:48 AM
06/27/19 10:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
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Guys, Thanks for your input.. We had a perfect track day June 22nd, sunny, dry and 78F... my brother did great and dropped his laptime from 2:08.10 to 2:04.55.
He arrived with his whole family the day before track day. With the limited time we stuck to the very basics: - He had ordered a set of Firestone Firehawks, 235/55-17's mounted and balanced on mag rims, got them delivered to my house, mounted them and test drove. - Flushed old DOT3 brake fluid, replaced with new Ate Typ 200 DOT4. - Checked alignment, it was adequate - no time to tweak. - Checked all the systems we could; fuel system, carb adjust, brake drums & liners. - Monitored tire temps for optimum pressure.
Then we reviewed strategy; - GOALS: Conserve brakes, use HP and grip to advantage. - Therefore: Manage the approaches to turns such that he carries momentum, minimizes braking, and then maximizes exit speed.
I rode with him one session halfway through the day.. the Firehawks appear to have fantastic breakaway characteristics, as far as I could tell from the passenger seat: Very gentle onset of throttle-induced oversteer and the transition *out* of the throttle induced oversteer was smooth as silk...
Showing a lot of lean here, but we are very happy with the improvement with so little effort... He made it through the entire day in one piece, had one spin but stayed on track, nothing broke, all good. Thanks again.. - Art
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 06/27/19 10:57 AM.
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: AndyF]
#2699396
09/20/19 10:49 PM
09/20/19 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
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Thanks guys, Sorry took me a while to come back and check here - Yeah - his RR is all stock, so whatever it got from the factory is what he's running it on..
Thanks for the pointers for further improvements next time Andy. I bought us both a copy of your book, so we have that going for us.
..My brother is not the most observant Mopar owner.. He had some bad tire wobble on his drive to my house, some 3 hours of highway driving. He felt he needed the tire balanced and an alignment. I took one look at his tires and nearly crapped. He was on old bias-ply tires, must 've had some strands broken, worst wear pattern I've ever seen.. (Photo attached). ..and he had his whole family with him for the trip, 4 kids and wife. Crazy.
..He is back on new street tires, storing his track tires at my house, so I'll try them out on our '65 Satellite in the spring. ..Of course this kind of driving transfers a lot more stress to the frame, and a post-trackday inspection I found two cracks in his K-frame, at welds where the folded steel flanges return around the front bolts.
The saga continues.
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: AndyF]
#2699398
09/20/19 10:53 PM
09/20/19 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
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One question I have is about the rear upper shock mounts:
How much stress/racing can that area tolerate before you gotta strengthen that mounting bracket? I mean, it looks pretty weak - just stamped and folded sheetmetal spot welded to the underside of the trunk panel?
- Art
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks?
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2700054
09/23/19 09:15 AM
09/23/19 09:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 270 Mountain View, CA
68rrunner
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 270
Mountain View, CA
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One question I have is about the rear upper shock mounts:
How much stress/racing can that area tolerate before you gotta strengthen that mounting bracket? I mean, it looks pretty weak - just stamped and folded sheetmetal spot welded to the underside of the trunk panel?
- Art Not a lot. We've blown out the holes in a couple of cars and torn one cross member completely out of a car once. Easy fix is to weld the ends better and then make some spacers and bolt the center rib to the trunk pan. You can also reinforce the bolt hols a bit by tacking in some williams washers.
Last edited by 68rrunner; 09/23/19 09:15 AM.
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