HAH!!! I WISH we had Alberta prices! [/quote]

No kidding. My brother in law works at the Parkland Refinery. They are processing beef lard for pollution credits right now. At the current prices, they are clearing well over 1 million/day in profit.

Ouch...

i'll getcha back somehow doc !

Just a short time ago “experts” were confidently writing and being paid to give speeches that the earth was at “peak oil” production.

It is probably worthwhile to keep this in mind when reading today’s headlines.

Auto reviewer Dan Neil of the WSJ writes this Saturday on page D6 that anyone who buys a vehicle with an Internal Combustion engine is making an idiot mistake.

Dan Neil claims he wants to buy a 750 hp 4wd pickup with 400 miles of battery range.

4 years from now how will that statement look?

I wouldn't be surprised if that goal is technically achievable. That being said, the internal combustion engine is far from its deathbed, and will still be around for some time.
The biggest issue I see with electric vehicles is the infrastructure needed to support them. As it is, if there are a few Teslas or Leafs in a neighborhood, no issue. But if every house has one or two, big problem. Our power grid doesn't even begin to have the capability to support millions of cars being plugged in to recharge every evening!
Some companies have put a few charging station spaces in their lots for electric car owning employees, some stores and municipal lots have done the same, but who has the budget to equip their entire lots that way, or pay the electric bill if they did?
Nor do we have much in the way to support the needs of millions of vehicles on the highway needing to recharge every 300 or 400 miles. I know for over the highway trucks, there is talk that truck stops would be equipped to quickly swap out batteries rather than try to have them park at "supercharger stations" recharging.
But what would it cost to equip tens of thousands of truck stops to be able to charge big banks of batteries and swap fully charged ones into semis that pull in for "fuel" stops?
And once again, what kind of power grid will be required to have the capacity to handle that?
I'll be an idiot and stick with internal combustion until these issues are worked out!

Recent article in the WSJ makes explains current low gas prices pretty well.

Demand for diesel and heating oil is up.

You cannot refine diesel and heating oil without making gasoline.

Production of gasoline exceeds current demand with a lot of it going into storage which is not unlimited.

All of this pushes gasoline prices down.

Even if we assume "Infinite Oil" () and our consumption continues at the current rate, sometime around 2050 we'll be using more than we can find and extract. Then what do we do?




The grid won't be a problem for a long time. I just found the math I did a while ago:




As for trucks, if Tesla really is getting 500 miles of range from batteries, that will cover a majority of short range day trips. Otherwise, you need to take a mandatory break at some point, at which point the batteries can charge.

Of course, if you have multiple drivers doing a cannonball run across the US, a battery truck may not be the best solution. Yet.

I'm not assigned to any of the programs involved, so I only catch a little bit of information about electric truck programs at my employer. But what I do know, is that we are working big time on developing a practical electric school bus. The technology is being developed with the resources of our partner Traton which is VWs spinoff of their truck companies MAN and Scania. Similar to the situation with propane, electric seems best suited to fleets that make local runs and then return to a central location where they are parked for long periods and can be charged, or in the case with propane, refueled from their propane stations as there are few propane stations available to the public.
Despite all the resources and technology available, my understanding is the prototype school busses have a very short range. It sounds like we have a long way to go before they are practical for school districts to use in their fleets.
Both Tesla and another company Nikola claim to have over the road electric truck tractors about ready to go. Until I see it happen, I'm skeptical that their claims aren't hyped up exaggerations to impress potential investors.
As for electric cars, their charge times vary exponentially as to what charging station is available. A local car guy got a model S and was telling us a 480 volt Tesla supercharging station can fully charge a car fairly quick, 75 minutes for a 100% charge. If someone has a 220 charger installed at home for their Tesla, a 100% charge takes 9 hours. Of course, less than 100% charge takes less time. My memory on times is vague so maybe someone with better Tesla knowledge can correct my times?

The electric vs ICE debate will rage on for years to come . . . after all, how do you generate electricity that you need to charge those batteries ??? How much $$$$ are you willing to pay per kwH to switch over to solar, or wind ???? . . .

I have and DO get in my car and drive for 12 hours to get through the mountains and to the west coast of Canada . . . one tank of fuel in my Journey can take me 850km (528miles) . . . yes, that is tough on the butt, however, I don't see electric vehicle that will do that today ! Not to mention it only takes about 8-10min to fill the tank and be ready for another 850km !!! . . . SLOW transition that does not take HUGE investment from government subsidies. . . . just saying !!! . . . battery technology is not there yet. Not to mention, what happens when it is MINUS 30 C up here in winter . . . lose lots of range just to the cold (gotta run that electric heater and blower motor off something . . . ) . . .

With all that said, YAY for lower gas prices for now !!! . . .

Sorry, rant off . . .

The interesting thing will be if people will want to pay more to get their power from coal.

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and-levelized-cost-of-storage-2018/

It sounds like you're not a good candidate for an EV if you make that trip with any frequency.

This is pretty neat site to play with longer routes and charging times/locations.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

The longest trip we normally do is 275 miles to my parents. That site recommends a ~5 minute charge at the half way point.

I just paid $2.94 for free and clear...and regular is 2.47 locally.

Well, I can see the flip side . . . I work in the electrical industry, I KNOW how the electric motors build torque right from 0 rpm, and the performance that can be had !!! . . . I keep track of my daily mileage for work (company car), and most days are 25 - 90 miles/day . . . so yeah, an electric car would meet those needs. But !!! . . . I like to travel LONG distance for car shows, swap meets, visiting, etc ... so having a "city electric car" and then something else (gas powered) for long trips, makes no sense to me . . .

Go to that site I linked above, and play around for a few minutes.

My friend that showed me his Model 3 put in the route from here to Disneyland. It's normally a ~10 hour drive straight through, but with charging it would take ~12. BUT, they have kids, and they'll need to stop and eat for hour a couple times anyways. If they can sync that with charging, then they're not losing time to charge.

I know I could deal with that a few times a year if necessary, especially considering the 2/3rd lower cost to fuel them the rest of the year. If I had to do trips like that every month or multiple times a month? Probably not...

Then again, the EV cannonball record is ~50 hours from LA to NY (~2900 miles).

So what happens when you get to COMMIEfornia and they turn off the power?

If there is a large surplus of refined gasoline right now it would be a good security move to sell some of the crude oil in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and use the money to create a protected reservoir of refined gasoline nearby pipelines that distribute gasoline.

Just having crude in the SPR limits its protective value.
A portion should be ready to sell diesel and gasoline.

Easy, they'll just gas up their Teslas, lol....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rls392hA9Y0

From the land of oil, Dallas,
another similar prediction to Dan Neil’s

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/personal-finance/2019/01/01/future-now-comes-cars

Sample quote
That, according to some, will be a lot sooner than most of us think.
"It saddens me to say it,"
former General Motors vice chairman Bob Lutz wrote in Automotive News last year,
"but we are approaching the end of the automotive era."
Snip
If car prices and gas prices crash, the irresistible economic advantage of driving an electric car will diminish. Drivers will buy junkers. They will drive without collision insurance and joyously search for the cheapest gas pumps. They will take pride in keeping the old brutes on the road.
When the future arrives, much of it will look like the streets of Havana.
End quote

That's the kind of thinking you get from idiots packed like sardines in big cities that never look at or think about flyover country. And yeah I knclude Lutz.

The whole energy market has changed tremendously since this post began.

Being in the oil, gas or coal business is like “wrestling wildcats.”

This is an ideal time to “top off” the strategic crude oil reserve,
and we should further create refined product reserves for gasoline and diesel fuel.

Instead it is more likely thousands of billions of $ are going to be spent bailing out state government employee pensions in the half of the fifty states that have acted badly.

It is also true we need to enlarge of reserves of both medicines and food.

There are plenty of old salt, limestone and other mines to store stuff in.

"They will take pride in keeping the old brutes on the road."

Why's everybody always pickin' on me?