Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2586366
12/02/18 10:51 PM
12/02/18 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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When I built a mold and a CF hood for my car I painted but if you want the CF look and its in the sun all the time.. shoot it with a quality clear coat.. I used PPG.. its made to be in the sun light
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2586367
12/02/18 10:51 PM
12/02/18 10:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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bean town ....Ca
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Wow .... how this market has changed ! .... and the desire for that carbon fiber look! And people used to beat me up on a 20$ price difference on my hood with custom bracing !! I even went so far as aluminum and MAG tubing .... now that was extra !
Almost TWICE THE MONEY than a regular FG dash and not that much of a weight savings. There was a biz OVER THERE that was EXCLUSIVELY in the CF biz and I had a chat or two with him about that market.
He said .... CF is to guys ... what diamonds are to chicks ! ..
GOOD for UNLIMITED PRODUCTS if they can capitalize on that !!!
I guess it's whatever the market will bear I'm willing to pay the price if it's something that I need and something that will work the way it's supposed to..
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2586422
12/03/18 01:12 AM
12/03/18 01:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632 Florida STAYcation
IcorkSOAK
Financed his waterbed
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Financed his waterbed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632
Florida STAYcation
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When I built a mold and a CF hood for my car I painted but if you want the CF look and its in the sun all the time.. shoot it with a quality clear coat.. I used PPG.. its made to be in the sun light Mr P ..... I totally agree ! .... NO sarcasm meant here ! .... I in fact have some OEM CF radio panel trim in my 05 CarrotVan and it sure looks good.
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2586427
12/03/18 01:28 AM
12/03/18 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632 Florida STAYcation
IcorkSOAK
Financed his waterbed
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Financed his waterbed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632
Florida STAYcation
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I guess it's whatever the market will bear I'm willing to pay the price if it's something that I need and something that will work the way it's supposed to.. NO guessing about it WD ..... and I truly meant GOOD FOR THEM ! .... honestly - I’ve never done any CF work and based on my few convos with people who have - THEY CAN HAVE IT ! .... it’s a PITA to work with ... the cost of materials, the minimal weight saving for the huge dollars spent AND from what I’ve heard reports of - other than SOME of the funny car bodies and a select few drag-race parts - It’s not laid up or vacuum bagged correctly for the maximum weight saving. Stuff done 110% right ? Contact any F1 team.
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2586652
12/03/18 03:50 PM
12/03/18 03:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397 Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar
pro stock
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pro stock
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Carson City, Nevada
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Picked up the new Dash today going to have a hard time painting over the nice looking carbon fiber look Looks good Shiloh! I have a glass one in the Duster (real light) I love it because it covers all the bars and junk next to the fire wall.
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2587615
12/05/18 05:04 PM
12/05/18 05:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
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Hilltown Pa
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Have you fit it in the car yet?
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#2587652
12/05/18 06:08 PM
12/05/18 06:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Have you fit it in the car yet? not yet but it will be fine..I'm sure
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2587819
12/05/18 11:19 PM
12/05/18 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
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Utah and Alaska
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I guess it's whatever the market will bear I'm willing to pay the price if it's something that I need and something that will work the way it's supposed to.. NO guessing about it WD ..... and I truly meant GOOD FOR THEM ! .... honestly - I’ve never done any CF work and based on my few convos with people who have - THEY CAN HAVE IT ! .... it’s a PITA to work with ... the cost of materials, the minimal weight saving for the huge dollars spent AND from what I’ve heard reports of - other than SOME of the funny car bodies and a select few drag-race parts - It’s not laid up or vacuum bagged correctly for the maximum weight saving. Stuff done 110% right ? Contact any F1 team. I have made carbon parts for airplanes that doubled in weight when I painted them. If you bag them right and get good vacuum, they are uber light. 3 layers of carbon, part weighed 7 oz, painted was over a pound, good for 200 MPH...
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2587849
12/06/18 12:39 AM
12/06/18 12:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
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master
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Utah and Alaska
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Cost of materials is 30-50% more than pure bidirectional e-glass if I use the minimum layers of carbon and have double the glass layers, biggest thing is building molds...I found that weight was double or more with straight glass just because I could use way less material with carbon. I used an e-glass cloth layer between the layers of carbon which helped save cost and the carbon was so much stiffer than glass when it is separated with layers glass, glass parts were .040-.125 thick, carbon .020-.030 with a layer of glass in between the carbon. These were not overly large parts, just farings but weight adds up quickly on an aircraft. Tim
Bagging made a huge difference in weight vs just a gel coated wet layup with chopped matt or heavy glass cloth to get the same stiffness.
Last edited by astjp2; 12/06/18 12:42 AM.
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: J_BODY]
#2587975
12/06/18 10:41 AM
12/06/18 10:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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Same piece Chris was selling a few years back... Speculation or truth? I picked up a couple glass ones when he was selling them. Also, its listed as 67-69, but should fit 70-72 as well, no? be interested to see how it fits up
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2587986
12/06/18 11:10 AM
12/06/18 11:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,410 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,410
Here
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ast .... so how do well made CF aircraft parts compare - weight wise - to nicely made FRP parts ? How about the diff in cost ? ... My 62 Lancer hood, CF/Kevlar/epoxy, with a 1/4" DivinyCell Core weighs 11 lbs. A first run of same hood had a vacuum pump failure during lay up, ended up weighing approx 14 lbs. Guy who bought it as a "second" was happy. http://www.diabgroup.com/en-GB/Products-and-services/Core-Material/Divinycell-H
"When one’s appeal is emotional, it does not matter if there is no substance."
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: OUTLAWD]
#2587987
12/06/18 11:10 AM
12/06/18 11:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Same piece Chris was selling a few years back... Speculation or truth? I picked up a couple glass ones when he was selling them. Also, its listed as 67-69, but should fit 70-72 as well, no? be interested to see how it fits up . I just seen one that was put into a 69 Dodge Dart it was fiberglass but the same mode. It fit nicely
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2588200
12/06/18 06:48 PM
12/06/18 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454 Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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Same piece Chris was selling a few years back... Speculation or truth? I picked up a couple glass ones when he was selling them. Also, its listed as 67-69, but should fit 70-72 as well, no? be interested to see how it fits up . I just seen one that was put into a 69 Dodge Dart it was fiberglass but the same mode. It fit nicely I saw the same one when I went out to the garage. I got mine from Chris.
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: astjp2]
#2588212
12/06/18 07:10 PM
12/06/18 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632 Florida STAYcation
IcorkSOAK
Financed his waterbed
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Financed his waterbed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,632
Florida STAYcation
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Cost of materials is 30-50% more than pure bidirectional e-glass if I use the minimum layers of carbon and have double the glass layers, biggest thing is building molds...I found that weight was double or more with straight glass just because I could use way less material with carbon. I used an e-glass cloth layer between the layers of carbon which helped save cost and the carbon was so much stiffer than glass when it is separated with layers glass, glass parts were .040-.125 thick, carbon .020-.030 with a layer of glass in between the carbon. These were not overly large parts, just farings but weight adds up quickly on an aircraft. Tim
Bagging made a huge difference in weight vs just a gel coated wet layup with chopped matt or heavy glass cloth to get the same stiffness. So ast ... jsta as a comparision - what should a FRP one weigh if built with the same craftsmanship as this CF one?
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: astjp2]
#2588233
12/06/18 07:32 PM
12/06/18 07:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,410 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,410
Here
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Cost of materials is 30-50% more than pure bidirectional e-glass if I use the minimum layers of carbon and have double the glass layers, biggest thing is building molds...I found that weight was double or more with straight glass just because I could use way less material with carbon. I used an e-glass cloth layer between the layers of carbon which helped save cost and the carbon was so much stiffer than glass when it is separated with layers glass, glass parts were .040-.125 thick, carbon .020-.030 with a layer of glass in between the carbon. These were not overly large parts, just farings but weight adds up quickly on an aircraft. Tim
Bagging made a huge difference in weight vs just a gel coated wet layup with chopped matt or heavy glass cloth to get the same stiffness. If one is marketing a CF hybrid item , for cost saving, I understand the E glass internal layer, but the cost saving IMO for a personal use item, in the big picture, is not significant. I use Kevlar as a bulk internal layer in addition to its other well known attributes.
"When one’s appeal is emotional, it does not matter if there is no substance."
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: IcorkSOAK]
#2588289
12/06/18 09:30 PM
12/06/18 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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Cost of materials is 30-50% more than pure bidirectional e-glass if I use the minimum layers of carbon and have double the glass layers, biggest thing is building molds...I found that weight was double or more with straight glass just because I could use way less material with carbon. I used an e-glass cloth layer between the layers of carbon which helped save cost and the carbon was so much stiffer than glass when it is separated with layers glass, glass parts were .040-.125 thick, carbon .020-.030 with a layer of glass in between the carbon. These were not overly large parts, just farings but weight adds up quickly on an aircraft. Tim
Bagging made a huge difference in weight vs just a gel coated wet layup with chopped matt or heavy glass cloth to get the same stiffness. So ast ... jsta as a comparision - what should a FRP one weigh if built with the same craftsmanship as this CF one? It wont be as stiff...and therefore would require more structure and thus more weight to be equivalent to a carbon/epoxy based matrix. Testing is the only way to make a legitimate comparison. Stiffness is the key with carbon, kevlar resists penetration, glass cloth is strong but lacks stiffness compared to the other 2 fibers. 100% of the load in a composite structure goes through the stiffest fiber until it fails, then the load transfers to the next stiffest fiber type. So carbon is the stiffest, then aramids like kevlar, then glass. If you layup just carbon, you are wasting material, you create a box beam like structure if you fill with glass or Kevlar. The separation of layers allows the structure to maintain sufficient stiffness with reduced costs vs. pure carbon. Unidirectional fibers also lose about 95% of their stiffness when you get 3-4 degrees away from perpendicular to the fiber flow, that is one reason to use a multi directional cloth and layer in 90/60/45/30 degree increments or some variation, meaning don't layup everything in the same direction. Excess resin also adds weight but doesn't add anything significant to the structure, that is why they vacuum bag, to get rid of excess resin and VOC's. Autoclaves, do more of the same as bagging. When using Kevlar, it makes it very hard to cut the matrix, that is why i use glass. Kevlar is terrible on scissors and saws. If you throw titanium fibers into the matrix, it is even worse, you will need to cut with a water jet or laser.
Last edited by astjp2; 12/06/18 09:32 PM.
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Carbon fiber dash . Pics and weight added
[Re: astjp2]
#2590376
12/11/18 02:31 PM
12/11/18 02:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Doing some test fitting and trimming so far seems to fit fairly nice
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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