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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560231
10/07/18 03:10 AM
10/07/18 03:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I never use the slinger, and I never use the bolt with the hole it in. It does nothing.
Drill a small hole .040ish in the cam retaining plate where it covers the passenger side oil gallery.
That will deliver oil to the chain much better than the goofy slinger or the bolt with the hole in it.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: madscientist]
#2560235
10/07/18 04:14 AM
10/07/18 04:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 485
Raleigh, NC
j.mcconnell
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 485
Raleigh, NC
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Madscientist, I assume you mean the galley that may or may not have plug threaded in it? Mine are plugged.
Motor has 125mi and a bunch or idle time as is, no drilled bolt, and everything looks minty fresh.
Last edited by j.mcconnell; 10/07/18 04:16 AM.
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560292
10/07/18 11:57 AM
10/07/18 11:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'm with Cab, that it helps keep oil away from the seal which mighta been a nightmare of comebacks for Ma back in the day with oil leaks being the cats' a$$ with people complaining about oil stains on their driveway while it was still under warranty. On the other, early or late I forget which used the drip plate & the other used a bolt in the upper pass (iirc) hole with a 1/8" hole in it for drip lube for the chain. I drilled/tapped the front of the pass horizontle oil gallery for an alum pipe plug & drilled a 1/64" (.015") hole in it & a 3/8 hole in the cam plate for a constant mini squirt past the plate out onto the chain. I ain't sure if it is needed or not, that splash might be enough as is but my OCD convinced me that it needed it. Also I drilled the same hole in the pipe plug by the intergear to lube that gear meshing. When you preoil you will be able to see the squirt & contrary to what some say .015" is enough. I ain't sayin you cant drill an iron npt plug with that small of a drill bit (go real slow with lube) but alum is far easier/quicker. EDIT I would use the drip plate if you have it and drill the bolt 1/8" (easy to do & every bit helps).
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/07/18 12:00 PM. Reason: missed something
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560296
10/07/18 12:02 PM
10/07/18 12:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Madscientist, I assume you mean the galley that may or may not have plug threaded in it? Mine are plugged.
Motor has 125mi and a bunch or idle time as is, no drilled bolt, and everything looks minty fresh. I'm talking about the main oil feed gallery that intersects with the lifter bores. There is one down each side of the engine that feeds the lifters. Technically, you could drill a hole in the cam retaining plate where it covers either passage, I just use the passenger side gallery. Some guys pound soft plugs into the gallery before they put the cam retaining plate on. I've pulled enough known new engines down (you know, new as in first time some joker took them apart) and maybe, maybe 10% had those plugs installed from the factory. Since that was the case, I have never, nor will I ever install a soft plug in those holes. The cam plate more than covers the holes. If you're still not sure what I'm talking about, just look at the block and the cam plate. That plate is designed to cover those two galleries. Just drill a small hole in the plate so it breaks into that pressure fed gallery and forget all the other trick crap Chrysler did.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2560299
10/07/18 12:08 PM
10/07/18 12:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I'm with Cab, that it helps keep oil away from the seal which mighta been a nightmare of comebacks for Ma back in the day with oil leaks being the cats' a$$ with people complaining about oil stains on their driveway while it was still under warranty. On the other, early or late I forget which used the drip plate & the other used a bolt in the upper pass (iirc) hole with a 1/8" hole in it for drip lube for the chain. I drilled/tapped the front of the pass horizontle oil gallery for an alum pipe plug & drilled a 1/64" (.015") hole in it & a 3/8 hole in the cam plate for a constant mini squirt past the plate out onto the chain. I ain't sure if it is needed or not, that splash might be enough as is but my OCD convinced me that it needed it. Also I drilled the same hole in the pipe plug by the intergear to lube that gear meshing. When you preoil you will be able to see the squirt & contrary to what some say .015" is enough. I ain't sayin you cant drill an iron npt plug with that small of a drill bit (go real slow with lube) but alum is far easier/quicker. EDIT I would use the drip plate if you have it and drill the bolt 1/8" (easy to do & every bit helps). The slinger was another way to try and bandaid an oiling issue. That slinger has zero to do with stopping oil leaks past the crank seal. The seal doesn't function that way. So the slinger isn't needed. It doesn't really do anything. Especially if there is actual pressurized oil getting to the chain. As for the drip tab...another engineering miracle that didn't do anything. And the bolt with the hole in it is a real head scratcher. The only hole that bolt can go into that can get ANY oil through it is the upper right hole, where it breaks through to the lifter valley. So that will be drip fed oiling. It doesn't do a thing. Zip. Again, run that stuff if you want. You don't need the slinger. If you are getting pressure fed oil on the chain, the chain itself will sling oil to hell and back and the slinger doesn't affect seal function. The drip tray is a classic engineering study. Simple, clean, relatively easy to manufacture and worthless as [censored] on a boar hog. And the bolt with a hole fits the above. Get pressurized oil on the timing set and forget the stop gap crap.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: madscientist]
#2560330
10/07/18 12:52 PM
10/07/18 12:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Again, run that stuff if you want. I plan to: bolt hole/drip tray/slinger/.015 squirt.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560363
10/07/18 02:41 PM
10/07/18 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027
Tulsa OK
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I always have good intentions of using the slinger, then guess what is left laying on the bench when the motor is all done. It even happened on the stroked 4.0 I built for my jeep. It has the same style slinger, and when I was done building the motor it was laying on the bench. The jeep motor has been in for 14 years and almost 60K miles now, no front seal leak.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2560432
10/07/18 06:21 PM
10/07/18 06:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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^^^ Now that you mention it if I remember correctly you posted way back if that was gonna be a problem (it was left out).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560440
10/07/18 06:39 PM
10/07/18 06:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
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The slinger was used to keep oil from flooding the front seal and keep oil on the chain. I haven't used any of it lately. Only thing I have used was the bolt with a hole in it in the top left. There should be plenty of oil coming off the front main to lube the chain. A .040 hole in the retainer with 60PSI behind it will put an awful lot of oil in the timing cover. I spend time reducing internal leaks and make sure the plate is sealed to the machined surface.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: madscientist]
#2560446
10/07/18 06:56 PM
10/07/18 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
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The slinger was another way to try and bandaid an oiling issue. That slinger has zero to do with stopping oil leaks past the crank seal. The seal doesn't function that way.
Tell us more.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2560537
10/07/18 09:54 PM
10/07/18 09:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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The slinger was another way to try and bandaid an oiling issue. That slinger has zero to do with stopping oil leaks past the crank seal. The seal doesn't function that way.
Tell us more. What more do you want to know? The slinger won't fix a seal, and it doesn't affect timing chain life. It's useless. I can have 2 engines, one with the slinger and the other without. The power between the two will be the exact same. Just like the drip tab that is a useless piece of junk to hang in an engine, the slinger does NOTHING. And the bolt with the hole is a real head scratcher. Some dude went to college to learn to drill a hole in a bolt that does NOTHING, no matter what hole you screw it into. Guys that this [censored] like voodoo and run slingers with garlic cloves around their necks to scare off oil leaks, have drip tabs on the shelf so they don't run out and have extra bolts with holes in them, but they can't or won't degree a cam. No wonder this sport is dying. It should die for all the stupid that goes on.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560579
10/07/18 11:19 PM
10/07/18 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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I guess I fall into the stupid category as my one work truck that turns alot of rpm on the highway, fast stops would drip from the seal without the slinger on the crank, I put it in without a new seal and it stopped. Ive always thought it was a poor slinger but a oil shield.
Sometimes I wonder what accomplishments in life, from moral standing, home life, bank account,children's accomplishments,awards won, records set in there field from some of the self proclaimed experts in the hobby.
Joe Dirt was just a movie and was not real.
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560601
10/07/18 11:52 PM
10/07/18 11:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,558
Fulton County, PA
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Race motor = no slinger, no tab, maybe a bolt with a hole in it if I have one. Timing chain and seal are consumables, don't expect them to last forever. I also try to control internal pressure and the amount of oil spraying around inside.
Street motor that will see miles = slinger, maybe a tab, maybe a hollow bolt if there's one there. Can't hurt.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560604
10/07/18 11:56 PM
10/07/18 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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The oil slinger does have purpose. Is it always needed? No. A timing gear or balancer with an imperfect surface or multiple timing key cuts at thier meeting point will leak through the keyway out of the balancer hub. Not so much a timing cover seal issue. Think of it as a combination seal umbrella/ banjo seal.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2560775
10/08/18 11:26 AM
10/08/18 11:26 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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The hole in the SB timing retainer bolts is normally in the hole that is exposed to the puddle in the cam side of the lifter valley allowing oil to seep through it and drip down onto the steel directional tab onto the chain   Cheap and fast for some additional oiling to the SB timing chain, ask Larry Shepard who designed that part originally and which college that engineers degree was from  The oil singer is designed to sling oil off of it and stop oil from being splashed up into the seal area of the timing chain cover, especially when braking hard No magic here  Thanks for making my point. Neither the slinger, the drip tab or the magic bolt does anything of consequence to oil the timing set. You can use them, or not and you'll never ever know it. Or, you can put pressurized oil on the timing set. Nah, why do that?
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: SB cam retainer question
[Re: j.mcconnell]
#2560838
10/08/18 12:53 PM
10/08/18 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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I personally would rather drip oil that is of no consequence to loosing any amount of oil pressure. Once the oil leaves the galley, it is no longer pressurized oil, it is directed oil. Sort of like the purpose of the bolt/ tab.
We all have preferences. Thinking through the ENTIRE scenario will lead most people to the same or similar solutions.
Is drilling the retainer not splash oiling?
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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