Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2539007
08/20/18 01:30 PM
08/20/18 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,167 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,167
CT
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Pump gas? Modern pump fuel is designed to vaporize very quickly, not a problem for fuel injected cars which keep fuel under pressure until it leaves the injector, but is a problem for a mechanical pump that puts the fuel under a vacuum for 15+ feet, fuel vaporizes much easier under a vacuum. My Carter 6903 (the one you don't need a regulator for) would drop from 7 to 3 PSI AT WOT in 1st gear, before it was heat soaked. Once heat soaked static pressure at idle was down to 5 or so PSI, dropping to <3 @ WOT. Some seem to have good luck, but seems to be a crap shoot. Dwayne Porter's 383 Satellite was pretty darn quick with a mechanical pump, he finally swapped in an electric and he picked up. I'm sure he will chime in. One day GY3 will make the switch and everyone will be shocked when he gets a 10 second slip with 3.54s and that mild cam.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 08/20/18 01:36 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2539098
08/20/18 03:46 PM
08/20/18 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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I do love the simplicity and quiet of a mechanical pump. I installed a Carter m6903 on my C body driver (440, 474 purple shaft, manifolds). It might run 15s or 16s on a good day, but to be honest I have not actually tried it. Just an old family sized car with a big motor for fun. I've got a plastic spacer under the carb and it hasn't given me any trouble as of yet, but if it acts up I'd probably first try a return line before doing anything drastic. I've had pretty good luck with return systems in the past keeping the fuel cool...
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: GTX MATT]
#2539249
08/20/18 08:42 PM
08/20/18 08:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,704 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,704
Wichita
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Pump gas? Modern pump fuel is designed to vaporize very quickly, not a problem for fuel injected cars which keep fuel under pressure until it leaves the injector, but is a problem for a mechanical pump that puts the fuel under a vacuum for 15+ feet, fuel vaporizes much easier under a vacuum. My Carter 6903 (the one you don't need a regulator for) would drop from 7 to 3 PSI AT WOT in 1st gear, before it was heat soaked. Once heat soaked static pressure at idle was down to 5 or so PSI, dropping to <3 @ WOT. Some seem to have good luck, but seems to be a crap shoot. Dwayne Porter's 383 Satellite was pretty darn quick with a mechanical pump, he finally swapped in an electric and he picked up. I'm sure he will chime in. One day GY3 will make the switch and everyone will be shocked when he gets a 10 second slip with 3.54s and that mild cam. Haha, car never noses over even beyond 1/4 mile. The car runs exactly what the Virtual Dyno says it will, usually within a tenth. ...even with nitrous! The nitrous does have a dedicated fuel system. All I need is some good track prep, a little shock tuning and weather to get that 10 N/A in the quarter.. It has been 101mph in the 1/8th mile.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: GY3]
#2539298
08/20/18 10:29 PM
08/20/18 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Pump gas? Modern pump fuel is designed to vaporize very quickly, not a problem for fuel injected cars which keep fuel under pressure until it leaves the injector, but is a problem for a mechanical pump that puts the fuel under a vacuum for 15+ feet, fuel vaporizes much easier under a vacuum. My Carter 6903 (the one you don't need a regulator for) would drop from 7 to 3 PSI AT WOT in 1st gear, before it was heat soaked. Once heat soaked static pressure at idle was down to 5 or so PSI, dropping to <3 @ WOT. Some seem to have good luck, but seems to be a crap shoot. Dwayne Porter's 383 Satellite was pretty darn quick with a mechanical pump, he finally swapped in an electric and he picked up. I'm sure he will chime in. One day GY3 will make the switch and everyone will be shocked when he gets a 10 second slip with 3.54s and that mild cam. Haha, car never noses over even beyond 1/4 mile. The car runs exactly what the Virtual Dyno says it will, usually within a tenth. ...even with nitrous! The nitrous does have a dedicated fuel system. All I need is some good track prep, a little shock tuning and weather to get that 10 N/A in the quarter.. It has been 101mph in the 1/8th mile. A 10.99 is there for sure. Obviously you've already gotten it on nos, but on motor too. Maybe the stars need alignment, but it's there. My old wagon ran consistent 11.0-11 teens at 119-121 and then the perfect weather and possibly a tail wind and I got that 10.98. I wouldn't have called it 10 sec. car necessarily, but legally I could have .
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2539300
08/20/18 10:30 PM
08/20/18 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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I do love the simplicity and quiet of a mechanical pump. I installed a Carter m6903 on my C body driver (440, 474 purple shaft, manifolds). It might run 15s or 16s on a good day, but to be honest I have not actually tried it. Just an old family sized car with a big motor for fun. I've got a plastic spacer under the carb and it hasn't given me any trouble as of yet, but if it acts up I'd probably first try a return line before doing anything drastic. I've had pretty good luck with return systems in the past keeping the fuel cool...
Let's see that C body! Wish I had the space for one.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540006
08/22/18 01:51 PM
08/22/18 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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Oh man, OK here are pics but it's just a big ol' 4 door with some police wheels.
After the original 400 went dead in a couple holes and had 3 lbs oil pressure, I put this 440 in it. It's the same '73 440 I originally had in the GTX with a few "cheap rehash" changes (dual plane, HP manifolds, 750, 474 cam) and a go-through.
It's still standard bore after all these years but bore taper is now approaching service manual maximum at .006. (max is .010, ahhh...it's not a race engine...whatever). It also has an awesome 3.23 peg leg, and the very first high stall converter I had in the GTX which is an 11" B&M holeshot from like 1989 LOL.
On this big tank I am experimenting with ignition ideas that I picked up from carbureted Jeep enthusiasts. A GM HEI module and Ford TFI coil, fired by a Mopar distributor. Not only is it dirt cheap but it seems to work well. I like it better than the previous chrome box/msd blaster.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540019
08/22/18 02:26 PM
08/22/18 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Are you kidding me! That's awesome. I would love to have something like that for a daily driver. In nice weather of course. I love the color too. I need a bigger garage.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540070
08/22/18 03:54 PM
08/22/18 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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Thank you.
Only a true Mopar Man like yourself appreciates 'em all.
It took forever but I eventually created a decent place to work indoors. I laid it out making sure it could accomodate a C body or 4 door long bed truck on the ground, or up in the air.
Out of respect, I won't hijack your post with 100 shop pictures LOL.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540090
08/22/18 04:58 PM
08/22/18 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Feel free to hijack! Nobody cares about Carter mechanical pumps anyways
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540159
08/22/18 08:26 PM
08/22/18 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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LOL ok, but just enough to keep the conversation going.
Garagejournal.com has been an inspiration, and a few moparts dudes are over there too.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540163
08/22/18 08:37 PM
08/22/18 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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More or less the whole story of the shop is told over at garagejournal...Will send you a link if you'd like to join up and check it out....Other than the hoist, the big thing that isn't visible (the slab insulation hints at it) is the radiant floor heat. I can lay on the floor in the dead of winter and work, and never feel cold which really helps... Back to your regularly scheduled fuel pump discussion...
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2540218
08/22/18 10:40 PM
08/22/18 10:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,894 Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,894
Spahn Ranch
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LOL ok, but just enough to keep the conversation going.
Garagejournal.com has been an inspiration, and a few moparts dudes are over there too.
I would be one of those dudes. My Garage Build Thread BTW, I used a Carter small block street/strip pump on my old W2 340 combo that went 12.0s at 110+. I believe it was starving for fuel on the top end but I was never exactly sure. When I built a 416 a few years ago I wanted to stay with a mechanical fuel pump so I chose a Clay Smith over the Carter. The CS is capable of moving a lot of fuel but it has a HUGE body, requires removing a boss on the block for clearance and can interfere with the water pump too. I wouldn't go that route again, no way too much hassle.
'71 Duster '72 Challenger '17 Ram 1500
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540220
08/22/18 11:07 PM
08/22/18 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Zippy, your garage is awesome! You have officially made it to hot rod heaven my friend.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carter strip Mechanical pump
[Re: TonyS451]
#2540406
08/23/18 01:07 PM
08/23/18 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,914
S.E. Michigan
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Thank you Tony....RMCHRGR's shop is super nice too...but can't see the pictures on that site unless logged in. That's how they get you LOL....
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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