Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2521816
07/14/18 01:19 PM
07/14/18 01:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,145
ontario calif
ns1aar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,145
ontario calif
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Could be the motor internal limit switch is bad. Check for power at the motor connector. There are 2 wires in the connector one is for up the other is for down. Check each wire separately with reference to chassis ground. Be sure to put the switch into the appropriate position.
Or you could unplug the motor and ground it. Then alternately apply power to each wire and see if the motor cycles
Last edited by ns1aar; 07/14/18 01:23 PM.
NS1AAR
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2521891
07/14/18 04:27 PM
07/14/18 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,224
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
The Erection Connection
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The Erection Connection
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,224
Rio Linda, CA
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Probably a bad relay, I believe that when they fail, the contacts in the relay are set up to keep the doors open. (better than stuck closed)
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2522044
07/15/18 08:19 AM
07/15/18 08:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
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The hideaways relay are allways with points closed, maybe on open or closed position but always gets some points closed.
It also needs to be grounded to chassis. If it doesn't get a ground the relay won't work. It should be howerver allways with points to close position by default
On closed doors position, the blue wire will keep energized the wire that closes the doors and is the motor what cuts the power internally.
Once you turn in lights ( green wire is the trigger which comes from headlight switch ) the relay will change the points position and now blue wire will feeds the other wire running to motor. Once motor gets the new signal, will spin on opposite direction untill get cuts again, BUT wire keeps energized.
Now you know this, you can easily bench test the output to motor both in open or closed doors. Remember the relay needs to be chassis grounded
A 5 pins bosch relay can be used to replace the stock one being wired like this:
30- blue wire Run circuit ( using the breaker in line to terminal 30 )
85 and 86, ground and trigger ( green wire ). Can be used in either way but tipically 85 is used as ground.
87-wire to open position
87a-wire to closed position
I made this diagram long time ago
Last edited by NachoRT74; 07/15/18 08:23 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2522236
07/15/18 05:51 PM
07/15/18 05:51 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 585
Texas
Texican
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 585
Texas
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The hideaways relay are allways with points closed, maybe on open or closed position but always gets some points closed.
It also needs to be grounded to chassis. If it doesn't get a ground the relay won't work. It should be howerver allways with points to close position by default
On closed doors position, the blue wire will keep energized the wire that closes the doors and is the motor what cuts the power internally.
Once you turn in lights ( green wire is the trigger which comes from headlight switch ) the relay will change the points position and now blue wire will feeds the other wire running to motor. Once motor gets the new signal, will spin on opposite direction untill get cuts again, BUT wire keeps energized.
Now you know this, you can easily bench test the output to motor both in open or closed doors. Remember the relay needs to be chassis grounded
A 5 pins bosch relay can be used to replace the stock one being wired like this:
30- blue wire Run circuit ( using the breaker in line to terminal 30 )
85 and 86, ground and trigger ( green wire ). Can be used in either way but tipically 85 is used as ground.
87-wire to open position
87a-wire to closed position
I made this diagram long time ago
THANK YOU !
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2524071
07/19/18 12:36 PM
07/19/18 12:36 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 585
Texas
Texican
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 585
Texas
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I switched the terminals around (reversed the continuity I assume) and at least now I can plug the harness in with the key on and the doors remain shut like it should, and they open when the lights are switched on. (everything good so far)
--> The problem now is once I switch the lights off, the headlight doors remain open.
I'm assuming there has to be a limit switch somewhere that reverses the polarity when the lights are off. I just need to understand it.
Thanks
Mike
Last edited by ACME_Garage; 07/19/18 12:37 PM.
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2524678
07/20/18 06:02 PM
07/20/18 06:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,145
ontario calif
ns1aar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,145
ontario calif
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Inside the motor are 2 switches they might be out of sink
NS1AAR
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: ns1aar]
#2524688
07/20/18 06:30 PM
07/20/18 06:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,167
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,167
Mass
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Inside the motor are 2 switches they might be out of sink Agreed, there's 2 "switches/point type contacts" and 2 "mechanical" hard stops... Ground the motor case, apply power to either one of the power leads, but not both at the same time, it's one or the other to drive the motor, assuming the motor is OK, you should be able to apply power to one side and spin the motor to it's mechanical stop clock wise or counter clock wise, then apply power to the opposite lead and spin the motor in the opposite direction until it hits it stop, if you can repeat this with no interruption of the motors function,then your problem is either in the relay or headlight switch, I doubt your wiring as you've already shown that you can either open or close the doors (I doubt the motor, but a simple test is in order to eliminate it)...I'll put my money on it being between the relay or switch, or your connections between the two.... Just because your harness is new, don't assume the wires are staked in the proper terminals....you need to have a factory wiring diagram/FSM Mike
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2524883
07/21/18 07:26 AM
07/21/18 07:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
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Agreed, you can feed the motor straight from batt to check for rotation working order, not both at the same time but one at a time. Motor good grounded, on wire should open while the other close. If does, make the same from the relay end and will discard section by section.
If works propperly from the relay end, then is the relay itself.
AFTER YOUR TEST REVERSING THE WIRES it points me to a damaged relay at the trigger signal input. Maybe wire cut inside the relay and the cut is shorting to some other wire inside.
Don't discard the relay if tests bad, MAYBE could be serviceable if got dirty points or the solenoid coil broken, could be fixable.
If not, well... althought not the best we can get but the cheaper and faster is replace the relay with a bosch kind. Used ones could be a lotery aside expensive if not picked up by yourself at some JY Around and I think repro ones are not available anymore ( they weren't cheap anyway back when they came out )
Used ones are tipically coming from C bodies. Brackets change but you can swap the bracket/housing cap from your old one.
Sometimes terminals kind changes too.
Last edited by NachoRT74; 07/21/18 07:37 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2525228
07/22/18 05:22 AM
07/22/18 05:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,140
Valencia, España
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There are couple of threads about that... one longer explaining the process and one I wrotte up with the diagram I posted which pretty much summs everything out in one view
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: Texican]
#2760777
04/06/20 01:55 PM
04/06/20 01:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,559
Lansing, MI
70gtx440dana
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,559
Lansing, MI
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Found this older thread...it helped me diagnose my issue. I too have all new repo underhood and front lighting harnesses. As suggested above. The motor wires are crossed on the repo harness causing the motor to work in reverse. Closes when lights are turned on.....opens when lights are switched off. I reversed the wires where harness connects to motor and it now works perfectly. Hopefully this will help others in the future.
Last edited by 70gtx440dana; 04/06/20 01:56 PM.
70 Road Runner 383-4 4 speed FJ5 & black guts
70 Charger R/T 440-4 4 speed FJ5 & white guts
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Re: 1970 Charger headlight door motor relay question
[Re: 70gtx440dana]
#2835692
10/21/20 02:39 PM
10/21/20 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,113
Horsham, Pa.
Finoke
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,113
Horsham, Pa.
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Found this older thread...it helped me diagnose my issue. I too have all new repo underhood and front lighting harnesses. As suggested above. The motor wires are crossed on the repo harness causing the motor to work in reverse. Closes when lights are turned on.....opens when lights are switched off. I reversed the wires where harness connects to motor and it now works perfectly. Hopefully this will help others in the future. Thank you. Yes it just helped me. I reversed the wires at the motor and all works as it should now.
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