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Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda #2520995
07/12/18 01:04 PM
07/12/18 01:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
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Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
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Italy
Hi ... after my swap .. from 440 to 572 the car is very powerful .. but in the last race i see a worse of my 60 FT from 1.40 to 1.50 .. the new megablock weight is 70 lb more than the 440 block ... this weight on the nose can cause a bad 60 ft ?? i have caltracs setted with zero preload .. car weight is 3650 lb ...

Thanks


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521015
07/12/18 01:41 PM
07/12/18 01:41 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
super stock
Iowan  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
I'd say it's just not hooked up as well...


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521018
07/12/18 01:46 PM
07/12/18 01:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,259
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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Bend,OR USA
All those sort wheel based E body have terrible weight distribution, including my lightweight(2800 Lbs. with me in it) 1970 Grand Coupe Cuda tube chassis car.
By adding more weight to the front end and more power you will need to find more traction to make the car as fast as it was before or faster.
I would try adding 25 to 40 lbs. more weight as ballast at the rear bumper attached inside it so it has the most effect on the weight distribution.

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/12/18 01:47 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521056
07/12/18 03:15 PM
07/12/18 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 580
Livermore, CA
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Dduster Offline
mopar
Dduster  Offline
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Livermore, CA
Put Your car on scales and let's see what the weight distribution is now with the new motor. With weight/load numbers You can decide the 'how much?' and 'where?' questions if necessary. Also, is this a torsion bar frontend car or coilovers/Struts/...????

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521083
07/12/18 03:59 PM
07/12/18 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
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Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
What shocks do you have?
Tires?
Air pressure?
Transbrake or footbrake?
Is this using the nitrous?
If so, do you have a progressive?


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521141
07/12/18 06:47 PM
07/12/18 06:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
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Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
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Italy
some info ..stock front suspension .. 90/10 shock , Rear monoleaf calvert , Rear shock qa1 double adj .. yes Nitrous with progressive controller 200 hp on launch and after 2 Sec 320 hp , caltracs at upper hole and ZERO preload


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2521144
07/12/18 06:58 PM
07/12/18 06:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
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Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
tire pressure 8.5 PSI


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521204
07/12/18 09:02 PM
07/12/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
Biginchmopar  Offline
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Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Set the CalTracs in the bottom hole (First).

Set the shocks on a pretty tight compression (Meaning hard to compress(1-10 set them at 8) rebound about in the middle (Second).

With you in the car and the bars set neutral put one or two flats of preload in the CalTrac bars (Three).

Set the tire pressure around 10 PSI (Four).

Report Back (Five).

Last edited by Biginchmopar; 07/12/18 09:04 PM.
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521217
07/12/18 09:31 PM
07/12/18 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
R
RustyM Offline
mopar
RustyM  Offline
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Texas
I would agree with 4 corner weighing the car.
I have learned a lot from the guys here and one big thing i learned when on scales was- small adjustments to torsion bars moves weight around - A LOT.

You have added more weight on the front, this changes your torsion bar loading.
You might find your corner weights all whacky now and some slight adjustments on torsion bars brings balance back to the car- for instance, you may be way heavy on drivers front, passenger rear- a little torsion bar tuning levels out rear cross weights for you, also helps the front weights as well of course.
You will still be nose heavy but, better balance still helps.
Perhaps there are areas from front seats forward that you can lose some weigh- look at scales again.

Its pretty amazing what just a quarter turn one way or the other on torsion bars does to the entire car.

8.5 lbs in tire seems really low but i don't see what tire it is- I go for the highest pressure that doesn't spin much- if your tire is paddling up to much ( wadding up) and the tire isn't staying pretty round, thats hurting your 60 ft.

Just went with a guy to film his launches and car was porpoising ( bouncing the front) on launch, 95% was too low a tire pressure, rest was shock too loose on extension - fixed that and went from 1.60 to 1.50 60"s.
he is at 12 1/4 to 12.5 lbs now on a 13X 30 et- et street.
Guys here got me to testing and- they were right- highest pressure we can run before losing 60 ft time is working>
we are changing some springs and weight and if it hits the tire harder- we could end up at 12 3/4 to 13 lbs.

Lastly- we have found down here the big strokes don't like nearly as much timing as was generally thought.
moved from 36 degrees with 110 race fuel ( 13.1 compression) to 32 degrees and 60 ft dropped to 1.46 and picked up 1 mph.

every mopar bb stroker we have dyno'd liked timing around 32- 33 instead of the 36-38 people were running with their 440 motors.

Hope this is of some help- envy you that motor-grin.

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521336
07/13/18 04:45 AM
07/13/18 04:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel
Dave Hall  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Sounds like spin. Video the car from the side with an iPhone, iPad or GoPro and watch the car launch frame by frame. How about bringing the NO2 in progressively after the initial launch. I agree with the 34 max timing and retarding from there with the gas. 70lbs. is a bunch. The weight could help if you can get the car to transfer properly.

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521384
07/13/18 10:42 AM
07/13/18 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,865
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,865
MI, usa
It may be nose heavy,but. The Cuda has a 108" wb compared to some B bodys that are as long as 119" wb. Even if it's nose heavy that weight is still closer to the rear axle than a B Body. 90/10 shocks are generally to loose causing the front to extend too quickly. This in turn unloads the rear. Get some good slow motion cell phone video directly from the side of the car at the start. My car has 113" wb and is 320lbs nose heavy. It'll carry the fronts 50-60ft every pass. 10.5x31, 13.5psi, 60ft 1.24-1.30 depending on set-up.
Doug

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Biginchmopar] #2521585
07/13/18 07:54 PM
07/13/18 07:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
Originally Posted By Biginchmopar
Set the CalTracs in the bottom hole (First).

Set the shocks on a pretty tight compression (Meaning hard to compress(1-10 set them at 8) rebound about in the middle (Second).

With you in the car and the bars set neutral put one or two flats of preload in the CalTrac bars (Three).

Set the tire pressure around 10 PSI (Four).

Report Back (Five).
Very good Infos ..Thanks for your Help .. therefore is better at 10 psi ? my tires is 29.5 /11.50/ 15 drag MT .. yes Calvert bar was adjusted at 1/4 preload with my ass ..


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: RustyM] #2521588
07/13/18 08:02 PM
07/13/18 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
Originally Posted By RustyM
I would agree with 4 corner weighing the car.
I have learned a lot from the guys here and one big thing i learned when on scales was- small adjustments to torsion bars moves weight around - A LOT.

You have added more weight on the front, this changes your torsion bar loading.
You might find your corner weights all whacky now and some slight adjustments on torsion bars brings balance back to the car- for instance, you may be way heavy on drivers front, passenger rear- a little torsion bar tuning levels out rear cross weights for you, also helps the front weights as well of course.
You will still be nose heavy but, better balance still helps.
Perhaps there are areas from front seats forward that you can lose some weigh- look at scales again.

Its pretty amazing what just a quarter turn one way or the other on torsion bars does to the entire car.

8.5 lbs in tire seems really low but i don't see what tire it is- I go for the highest pressure that doesn't spin much- if your tire is paddling up to much ( wadding up) and the tire isn't staying pretty round, thats hurting your 60 ft.

Just went with a guy to film his launches and car was porpoising ( bouncing the front) on launch, 95% was too low a tire pressure, rest was shock too loose on extension - fixed that and went from 1.60 to 1.50 60"s.
he is at 12 1/4 to 12.5 lbs now on a 13X 30 et- et street.
Guys here got me to testing and- they were right- highest pressure we can run before losing 60 ft time is working>
we are changing some springs and weight and if it hits the tire harder- we could end up at 12 3/4 to 13 lbs.

Lastly- we have found down here the big strokes don't like nearly as much timing as was generally thought.
moved from 36 degrees with 110 race fuel ( 13.1 compression) to 32 degrees and 60 ft dropped to 1.46 and picked up 1 mph.

every mopar bb stroker we have dyno'd liked timing around 32- 33 instead of the 36-38 people were running with their 440 motors.

Hope this is of some help- envy you that motor-grin.
with 572 i have 37 degree with naturally aspirated and best ET is 10.1@ 136 mph ... with 300 spray timing is -11 degree .. therefore is total timing 26 degree .. best ET is 9.3@151 mph 60 FT is 1.50 ... with 496 60 FT was 1.40-1.42 ...


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Dduster] #2521591
07/13/18 08:04 PM
07/13/18 08:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
Originally Posted By Dduster
Put Your car on scales and let's see what the weight distribution is now with the new motor. With weight/load numbers You can decide the 'how much?' and 'where?' questions if necessary. Also, is this a torsion bar frontend car or coilovers/Struts/...????
no possible weight 4 corner in italy... Sorry.. i know only total weight 3650 LB


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: RustyM] #2521594
07/13/18 08:08 PM
07/13/18 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
member
R

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
Originally Posted By RustyM
I would agree with 4 corner weighing the car.
I have learned a lot from the guys here and one big thing i learned when on scales was- small adjustments to torsion bars moves weight around - A LOT.

You have added more weight on the front, this changes your torsion bar loading.
You might find your corner weights all whacky now and some slight adjustments on torsion bars brings balance back to the car- for instance, you may be way heavy on drivers front, passenger rear- a little torsion bar tuning levels out rear cross weights for you, also helps the front weights as well of course.
You will still be nose heavy but, better balance still helps.
Perhaps there are areas from front seats forward that you can lose some weigh- look at scales again.

Its pretty amazing what just a quarter turn one way or the other on torsion bars does to the entire car.

8.5 lbs in tire seems really low but i don't see what tire it is- I go for the highest pressure that doesn't spin much- if your tire is paddling up to much ( wadding up) and the tire isn't staying pretty round, thats hurting your 60 ft.

Just went with a guy to film his launches and car was porpoising ( bouncing the front) on launch, 95% was too low a tire pressure, rest was shock too loose on extension - fixed that and went from 1.60 to 1.50 60"s.
he is at 12 1/4 to 12.5 lbs now on a 13X 30 et- et street.
Guys here got me to testing and- they were right- highest pressure we can run before losing 60 ft time is working>
we are changing some springs and weight and if it hits the tire harder- we could end up at 12 3/4 to 13 lbs.

Lastly- we have found down here the big strokes don't like nearly as much timing as was generally thought.
moved from 36 degrees with 110 race fuel ( 13.1 compression) to 32 degrees and 60 ft dropped to 1.46 and picked up 1 mph.

every mopar bb stroker we have dyno'd liked timing around 32- 33 instead of the 36-38 people were running with their 440 motors.

Hope this is of some help- envy you that motor-grin.
you think need only adjust f4ont bars .. or need different torsion bars ??


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521597
07/13/18 08:20 PM
07/13/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
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Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
572 Launch



1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521598
07/13/18 08:23 PM
07/13/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
member
R

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
572 Launch


1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521600
07/13/18 08:27 PM
07/13/18 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
R
Raffaplymouth60 Offline OP
member
Raffaplymouth60  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 195
Italy
496 Launch



1970 Cuda 496 street driven 9.22@150
1971 Demon 572 7.82@176
1957 Desoto Adventurer Convertible 345 Hemi
1958 Plymouth Fury Christine
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi
1970 Dodge ChallengerRT 6pack 4 speed 1 of 135
1968 Dodge Charger RT 4 speed
Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521619
07/13/18 09:19 PM
07/13/18 09:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
R
RustyM Offline
mopar
RustyM  Offline
mopar
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
I would certainly try 1/4 pound of air in tires, see what she does- cant tell from pick where you are in relation to leaving on the light.

secondly- what front brakes do you have on the car?
If its the factory disc brake set up- you can easily lose some weight up front by going to aftermarket race brakes.

Not sure what your torsion bar options are for that car.
Yes, a little tuning on them can make a big difference, but you absolutely NEED scales.
Surely someone over there has a set of scales.

are you running a front anti-sway bar? If so, i would likely pull it off , save some weight, help front end respond better.

Do you have a picture of car just sitting still with 572 installed- a pit pic, from the side ?

Re: Bad 60 FT with 70 lb more of Megablock on my Cuda [Re: Raffaplymouth60] #2521621
07/13/18 09:21 PM
07/13/18 09:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 566
Texas
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RustyM Offline
mopar
RustyM  Offline
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Texas
37 degrees of timing for NA seems excessive to me- but hey, i'm not there.
Just wondering how yall came to that number and what fuel your using?

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