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Opinions for a 440 based race only engine #2519332
07/09/18 12:01 AM
07/09/18 12:01 AM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Well the maiden trip to the track did not turn out well. So, I am looking into options. The current combo is a 440 based 500" with a 4.15 stroke.
I am afraid that it is going into the junk pile. So what I would like to know is a 4.15 or a 4.25 stroke better for a drag engine? I have TF 270 heads, a super Victor and 1050 ultra dominator. The cam is a comp cams solid roller @.050 Int 280* Ehx 284* lift is .672 and .642 with 1.6 roller rockers. The converter is an 8" that flashes to 5500. The rear is a Dana 60 with 4.30 gears. The rear tires are 14 x 32. The car is a 70 Road Runner that is as light as I could make it. With me it weighs 2850.
So What would you recommend for stroke?

Thanks,
Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519351
07/09/18 12:30 AM
07/09/18 12:30 AM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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What is the problem with current engine? If the crank isn't broken then why not use it?

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: AndyF] #2519359
07/09/18 12:39 AM
07/09/18 12:39 AM
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By AndyF
What is the problem with current engine? If the crank isn't broken then why not use it?


At this point I am not sure what is wrong. The engine died after the first burn out and will not turn over. I haven't gotten very far on the tear down. I just got the engine out and the heads off. The cylinder walls that I can see have vertical marks. The heads look good and the piston tops are still clean. The engine would turn over very slow with the starter but no dice with a breaker bar. So I am expecting the worst case of massive bearing failure.

Digger72 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519360
07/09/18 12:42 AM
07/09/18 12:42 AM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Why are you suspecting bearing failure when you see vertical scoring of the cylinder walls???

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2519363
07/09/18 12:47 AM
07/09/18 12:47 AM
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Why are you suspecting bearing failure when you see vertical scoring of the cylinder walls???


Just a hunch. I am thinking that there may have been an oil issue due to the vacuum pump? Like I said I am thinking worst case right now.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519385
07/09/18 01:28 AM
07/09/18 01:28 AM
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Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
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I've been happy with the 4.15 stroke, I ran it for years with the comp 650 mechanical FT cam to 7000 rpm even 7200 for awhile. And this was with polished, shotpined stock rods.
I do like the lightweight 4.25 crank out there now but it's been a long time since I've looked at rod/stroke ratios.


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519438
07/09/18 10:02 AM
07/09/18 10:02 AM
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Brisvegas, Australia
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Alchemi Offline
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Pick a pin height your happy to use
Work back to the lightest bobwieght you can with a chev journal rod on either stroke

Aside from the intake, does it have to be a rb block?
In a 400 block a 537 gram Diamond 1.32 piston, one of their custom 130g pins and a 712g k1 6.535 2.1 rod on a 4.25 crank will get you a target bobwieght of around 1870 grams - it would take some exotic components to get a rb down to that, at that stroke

Last edited by Alchemi; 07/09/18 10:56 AM. Reason: stuffed a number up
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519444
07/09/18 10:46 AM
07/09/18 10:46 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Not enough performance change to go to the 4.25 stroke, unless you can't salvage the 4.15 combo.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519453
07/09/18 11:31 AM
07/09/18 11:31 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I’d get it apart, see what you have to work with....... and go from there.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519454
07/09/18 11:32 AM
07/09/18 11:32 AM
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Livermore, CA
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Dduster Offline
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Keep digging on the autopsy to determine what actually killed the motor? Instinct is oil pressure/bearings problem. Put the crankshaft 'stroke' concerns on the back burner. Your motor configuration sounds fine, get together with Cab (He'll see this and should contact You thru IM) over there in Bend, OR and make a durable motor. This 'racing' stuff is painful some days. Remind Yourself: It's only money.

Last edited by Dduster; 07/09/18 12:13 PM.
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519574
07/09/18 03:57 PM
07/09/18 03:57 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the kind words and suggestions.
As I stated before I am asking only in anticipation for the worst.
I am a realist in the fact that this is not good no matter what or why.
I am sort of stuck in the RB mode as everything I own is RB based.
I will keep the post mortum going this next weekend. This thing called work keeps getting in the way of my racing.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519686
07/09/18 08:20 PM
07/09/18 08:20 PM
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merpar Offline
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With your combination you're pushing your luck with a stock block. Be it B or RB. With vertical lines I would say something that shouldn't be there is floating around. If you don't have a good oil pan with baffles and good windage tray. That contains the oil around the pickup. I would predict spun bearing.

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: merpar] #2519729
07/09/18 10:27 PM
07/09/18 10:27 PM
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By merpar
With your combination you're pushing your luck with a stock block. Be it B or RB. With vertical lines I would say something that shouldn't be there is floating around. If you don't have a good oil pan with baffles and good windage tray. That contains the oil around the pickup. I would predict spun bearing.


I have a main girdle and windage tray. the oil pan is a milodon 7 quart with baffles. As for the the pick up, it is a swinging single line external pick up. When warm I had 70 - 80 psi. The vertical lines are not deep just that I can see them. That was my thought also that I have a bearing that has failed. The oil came out as clean as when I poured it into the engine. I even filtered it as it was drained out. Nothing in the filter either.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2519960
07/10/18 12:24 PM
07/10/18 12:24 PM
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merpar Offline
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I had the same oil pan and windage tray. With .003 clearance on rods and mains. As I was turning onto return road oil pressure dropped to 10 lbs. The next pass spun two bearings, windowed both sides of the block. I did high tech testing with same pan and windage tray. Strapped oil pan with 7 quarts of water on front of my quad on concrete. Launched it, dang that water was cold! What water didn't come out on launch. Came out when I braked. I fabbed two baffles with BMW style rubber flaps. And welded in covers on both ends of windage tray. Then did the same test, hardly lost any water. It is worth the time and trouble to trap that oil where you need it. Oil drain back is fine too. Have you taken the motor apart yet?

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: merpar] #2520054
07/10/18 04:20 PM
07/10/18 04:20 PM
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Thanks for the tips.
I have done as much as I could for the oil drain back. I used epoxy to fill in the low places next to the cam. Then I painted the inside of the block. As for the dis assembly, I only got as far as pulling the top end apart then ran out of time. I work 12 hour days so time for the car is limited to the weekends. I will be back out in the shop in a couple of days.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2520292
07/10/18 11:46 PM
07/10/18 11:46 PM
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What’s our performance goal? Et/mph.

Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2520295
07/10/18 11:52 PM
07/10/18 11:52 PM
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Dragula Offline
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440Source 543 with girdle and ARP 2000 bolts...

Will easily put your car in the 9's on pump gas..


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: J_BODY] #2520341
07/11/18 01:21 AM
07/11/18 01:21 AM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By J_BODY
What’s our performance goal? Et/mph.


I would like to have the car run low 10's maybe high 9's with the MPH to support the ET.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Dragula] #2520343
07/11/18 01:25 AM
07/11/18 01:25 AM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Dragula
440Source 543 with girdle and ARP 2000 bolts...

Will easily put your car in the 9's on pump gas..


I have a girdle and the ARP 2000 bolts with the combo I have now.
It is running Sunoco purple fuel.

Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: Opinions for a 440 based race only engine [Re: Digger73] #2520378
07/11/18 06:13 AM
07/11/18 06:13 AM
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IL
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EchoSixMike Offline
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I'm betting insufficient ring gap and/or insufficient piston clearance. I'd fix it and run with the 4.15 crank. S/F....Ken M

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