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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24858
06/29/06 12:52 PM
06/29/06 12:52 PM

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Well... I had a most interesting revelation that ties in completely with this Tremclad/Rustoleum paint method... and I think it may provide a solution to some folks that are sitting on the fence.

I was talking to my older brother about the work I have been doing on my car. I described to him the method by which to apply Tremclad in order to get a hard paint job with a decent look to it on a budget.

He started laughing and explained to me that THERE IS AN EVEN BETTER WAY to do this and it has been done for YEARS with guaranteed REPEATABLE and CONSISTENT results.

Well that caught my ears, because the only weakness with using the TremClad / Rustoleum method is that the results are inconsistent between users and there is almost a hint of Voodoo science for the beginner to get near perfect results...

OK... SO WHAT WAS MY BROTHER'S SECRET ALTERNATIVE ?

.... Marine Paint.

It turns out that the guys with the boats have been HAND PAINTING AND ROLLING the paint jobs on their boats FOR YEARS. The have it down to a science and YOU CAN ROLL a paint like Interlux Brightside STRAIGHT FROM THE CAN - no mixing - no hoping you get the mineral spirit mixed in the right ratios.

The boaters face problems that are identical to car owners.... wear - shine - durability - effects of weather ( sun - moisture etc ).

And best of all Marine paint is designed to HARDEN....

And even better... the Marine paint SELF-LEVELS.

And even better yet... 10 years is the average life expectancy of a Marine paint by hand job...

And maybe the icing on the cake... at most it will take only 2 or 3 coats to get complete coverage.

One last bonus with the marine paint is that you can get a ONE STAGE Polyurethane that is equivalent to the top of the line paint used by MAACO ( their most expensive premium paint job ) and the paint has such a high gloss that it always appears WET.

Ok... I cannot speak here about any Marine paint here except the Interlux BRIGHTSIDE... because my brother is only aware of it being used successfully on CARS.

Here is what the manufactuer says about this product :

------------------------------------

Brightside Polyurethane is the most technically advanced one-part polyurethane available. Brightside now contains Teflon® for better resistance to staining, abrasion and easy cleaning.

Brightside uses Polyflow 4000®, a unique polyurethane resin, which yields excellent flow and leveling characteristics as well as incredible abrasion and chemical resistance. Brightside also takes advantage of the latest in ultraviolet technology which insures longer color and gloss retention.

Together these technologies create a one-part polyurethane which gives the look of a two-part polyurethane with the application ease of a one-part enamel.


Application Details - Brightside Polyurethane
Area Above the waterline
Finish/Sheen High Gloss
Number of Coats: 2 minimum
Method of application: Brush / Roller / Airless Spray / Conventional Spray
Available colors: View color chart and sales codes
Pack sizes: 1 US Quart / 1 US Gallon / (Some colors only)

-------------------------------------

Did you notice where they SPECIFICALLY SAY BRUSH/ROLLER... and it is DESIGNED to be UV resistant and has Teflon to repel chemicals and stains ( like bird poop ).

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa//product_g...cePageID=6660#1

You can check out the COLOR SELECTION at this link :

http://www.yachtpaint.com/USA/general/colorcard_topsides.asp

NOTE : You need to go to the middle of the color card for the TWENTY-FOUR BRIGHTSIDE color choices...

Brightside

Blue-Glo White Y4259
White Y4359
Hatteras Off-White Y4208
Hatteras Off-White 1990 Y4218
Off White Y4381
Matterhorn White Y4360
Seattle Grey Y4205
Dusk Grey Y4233
Kingstone Gray Y4190
Steel Grey Y4250
Grand Banks beige Y4217
Yellow Y4152
Sundown Buff Y4237
Bristol Eeige Y4207
Ocean Blue Y4253
Fire Red Y4248
Sea Green Y4247
Light Blue Y4351
Flag Blue Y4990
Dark Blue Y4316
Largo Blue Y4100
Medium Blue Y4353
Sapphire Blue Y4241
Black Y4258

Better yet... find your local marine paint dealer that sells Interlux and get a copy of their color chips - they are even better in person than the color samples on the Internet.

Ok... so that is TWENTY-FOUR colors that you can use DIRECTLY from the can to your car without mixing in any mineral spirits etc.

This will have to be considered the premium version of the Tremclad paint job - in that the Brightside paint goes for $19 to $45 per quart ( depending on where you buy it from.

And yet is is a 'roller job' designed paint and your methodology is the same as we have been discussing for the Tremclad / Rustoleum method.

Oh... did I mention that it is enamel compatible and you can sand down your last Rusto/Tremclad layer and lay this paint over it

So you are going to pay a little more per can for this stuff... BUT I think the reduced number of coats required for coverage, the elimination of the mixing of thinners, the fact that it is a one stage Polyurethane, the fact that it is roller and brush ready from the can... makes it a worthwile candidate to consider if you want to try the 'budget paint' process on your car.

And the surface preparation requirements for a boat are the same as what everyone has to do to prepare for Tremcladding.

We all know how sharp the paint jobs on speed boats look... and the conditions under which that type of paint must operate. So it is a natural for bringing over to the home do it yourself car enthusiast.

And I don't think I need convince anyone about the durability of marine paint jobs.

Nuff said. I really wanted to share this info with everyone because I think it is definitely the next step up from the Tremclad roller job - and that it solves the repeatable and consistency problems that folks have experienced.

Say goodbye to orangepeel... when you are only having to lay 2 or 3 layers you just reduced greatly the chances of an orangepeel breakout during the 6 to 10 layers of Tremclad you have to lay to get full coverage.



Hi, marq
Do you still do the same process with the wet sanding? Will you still get the same shine results on a car as tremclad/rustoleum?

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24859
06/29/06 12:57 PM
06/29/06 12:57 PM
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Yes... the process is the very same for the wet sanding. Boaters don't need to do it... but I went and scouted out a NUMBER of boater 'do it yourself' web sites where they have been wet sanding it between layers to get an even deeper color and higher level of gloss.

The common thread throughout most of the boater message threads was the 'surprise' most of them experienced with just how wet, deep and glossy the paint was without doing the wet sanding.

About the only thing the boaters tend to argue about was the different brands of marine paints to which they swear allegiance to. The BRIGHTSIDE paint by Interlux seemed to be the majority favorite based on COST, ease of use and quality of the end result.

.

Last edited by Marq; 06/29/06 01:00 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24860
06/29/06 12:58 PM
06/29/06 12:58 PM
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Certainly interesting Marq! Their website says to use primer, does your brother's experience include the primer?

Last edited by Exit1965; 06/29/06 12:58 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24861
06/29/06 12:59 PM
06/29/06 12:59 PM
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Also Marq do you have any pics of this stuff after being applied with a roller? (boat or car..?)

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24862
06/29/06 01:10 PM
06/29/06 01:10 PM
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Watch the movie they provided that gives a brief example of how to paint a boat.... ( I just added this link to the original post ).


In the free booklet the dealers hand out, there are more detailed instructions on the 'roll and tip' method of applying paint. Which you will find is the same as what we are already doing with the 4 inch high density foam rollers.

The fat guy in this movie is using just a brush to apply and level it...


http://www.yachtpaint.com/USA/hotlinks/perfection_intro.mpeg

They only provide the 'intro' on their web site, but at the dealer they have a CD with the full movie on it that they give out ( when they have them and they haven't all been taken ). You might be able to request one be mailed to you by Interlux if your local dealer doesn't have the CD

As for the primer... when you get a hold of the fact sheet or their booklet that they hand out at the store... the 'primer' is a nice luxury but not necessary EXCEPT when applying the paint over certain materials... like aluminum or worn out gelcoat etc.

The main thing I read through quite a few boater message boards is that you can lay this marine paint directly over sanded enamel paint.

The problem with the PERFECTION brand paint is that it is so potent that it can wrinkle up old paint trapped beneath it. So in its case the primer is a definite necessity. But the BRIGHTSIDE is compatible with the enamel and has no reported ill effects.

Personally, I might be tempted to use their primer for two reasons :

a) to establish a uniform color on the car body from which to layer your chosen color. The biggest problem with the Tremclad method is that if you had multiple colors that you were painting over, it took extra layers to get 100% coverage of a uniform color.

b ) their primer would provide the absolute best surface on to which you would be assured the maximum of adhesion of the BRIGHTSIDE paint.

However, I did read on another site where a user did an adhesion test by trying different substrates with this paint. His conclusion was that he got the same level of adhesion on 'their primered surfaced' as on a sanded surface. It was all quite scientific how the guy went about testing it and the results look pretty authentic and not based on theory etc.

I think you can also find the 'roll and tip' information in greater detail on the yachtpaint.com web site

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/default.asp

.

Last edited by Marq; 06/29/06 01:34 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ *DELETED* [Re: Marq] #24863
06/29/06 01:15 PM
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ *DELETED* #24864
06/29/06 01:35 PM
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24865
06/29/06 01:46 PM
06/29/06 01:46 PM

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A little update on my paint status. Exit, I'm going with the same color you did, Safety Red Professional. It takes forever to not see the ghost of the previous color beneath and/or bondo. This pic is after the 6th coat. I'll be wetsanding and applying my 9th coat tonight. I can't wait to see it in the sun! It flows very well at the milk consistency. Any waves are fiberglass waves as this buggy body is probably 30 years old.

I won't do the dial-uppers a disservice by embedding these pics:
front pic - dried coat 6
top pic - dried coat 6

BTW, for those of you on the humid coast like me, a dehumidifier in the room will speed the drying of this stuff. Before using it, the paint wasn't ready for recoat w/in 12 hours.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ *DELETED* #24866
06/29/06 02:47 PM
06/29/06 02:47 PM
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guys, lets keep this on topic and not turn it into a debate about the quality of maaco, thats a different subject,
thanks

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24867
06/29/06 03:07 PM
06/29/06 03:07 PM

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I couldn't find this Interlux Brightside paint anywhere under $25-$30 a quart online (their's nowhere locally here to buy it that I have found), but here a deal........
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http://cgi.ebay.com/6Qt-Red-Interlux-Bri...1QQcmdZViewItem
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ *DELETED* [Re: Ira] #24868
06/29/06 03:15 PM
06/29/06 03:15 PM

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Quote:

guys, lets keep this on topic and not turn it into a debate about the quality of maaco, thats a different subject,
thanks



Ira, nice to know you can post too! Dude, I just wanted to thank you and the other moderators for being so open minded and allowing this thread. You guys ROCK!

I am continually amazed at how this technique keeps evolving: rollering with Tremclad only to rollering with a variety of paints like Rustoleum, Valspar, Tremco, Dutchlac and now Interlux; applications with a rollers, brushes, Wagners and even rattle cans.

Bottom line, for years we all thought cars could ONLY be painted with compressors, paint booths, masks and spray guns. All of you guys are proving this is not true.

As for me, I'm still working on the Dutchlac variation. It's just GETTING there that's so hard. Like Exit, I keep finding body imperfections that keep popping up. Painting will be the EASY part!

Keep up the good work all of you!

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24869
06/29/06 03:32 PM
06/29/06 03:32 PM

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One question marq,
Do you know if the Brightside is as thin as the Rustoleum/Tremclad after thinned or is it thicker like reg. paint?

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24870
06/29/06 03:59 PM
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Well. I bought four cans of the Interlux BRIGHTSIDE Fire Red... and I did a quick shake test of the can to try to answer your question.

It sounds a little bit wetter than a unmixed can of Tremclad... the glub glub sound splashing around in the can was a splashier higher pitch.

My curiousity got the better of me and so I opened up a can after a minute of gentle rocking of the can to mix it.

Out of the can the paint is indeed slightly wetter than straight Tremclad.

Part of the reason that you are able to apply BRIGHTSIDE in its virgin state is that it was chemically designed to be able to be applied thinly to whatever you are painting. They make some specific reference to some polymer or chemical in the product that gives the paint the specific property to be painted thin and self level.

Ok... I have just done a 'test experiment' on my car...

Using my 4" high density roller I laid a test patch of the Brightside over

a) a wet sanded section of Tremclad... and

b) an unsanded section of Tremclad

RESULT : No compatibility problemms at all. It went on, adhered and self-leveled. No eating or wrinking of the Tremclad substrate.

I have only done some test areas for the purposes of this compatibility test and here are my observations :

a ) when you roll the BRIGHTSIDE with a 4" high density roller, you get a similar 'bubble' effect as Tremclad with the right mix of mineral spirit.

b ) in the first seconds that the paint is rolled on it looked kind of sueded. As per their recommendations you immediately take a 3 or 4 inch foam brush and pass it over the freshly rolled paint. LIKE FRIGGIN MAGIC ALL THE SUEDE or BUBBLES disappear and it leaves behind a GLOSSY surface.

c ) the color coverage appears to be about equal to the Tremclad. I was a little disappointed that the pigment wasn't a little thicker. So a primer might be a good idea if someone is starting with a multicolored body - just to provide a uniform base over which to paint.

d ) the paint rolls on smoothly and is thick enough that it adheres immediately and can easily be worked in both the horizontal and vertical without RUNS or dripping Yippee

At this moment I am thrilled. The result exceeds how things were progressing at 6 coats of Tremclad and the gloss and depth of the color with this one THIN pass of the roller is amazing. I could clearly see my reflection in the gloss.

The secret to working with this stuff is pretty much the same rules that we used with the Tremclad experiment. But I would say the sequence could be revised to :

a ) lay on a thin coat of the Brightside to one section or panel of the car at a time. That is pretty much the rule we have applied when doing the Tremclad.

b ) immediately go over that same area with a 3 or 4 inch foam BRUSH ( traveling in one uniform direction ) to magicly wipe away the bubbles/suede. This is something that was not necessary with the Tremclad - but with the Tremclad you needed to have the right mix of paint and mineral spirit to get the bubbles to self-disappear.

c ) let dry ( a minimum of 8 hours as per the Interlux instructions. Considering that one layer of Brightside is equal to two layers of Tremclad.... that works out to a reasonable waiting time.

d ) wet sand with a 1500 or 2000 ( because this puppy is going to self level and have a smooth glossy surface...

e ) repeat steps a to d until you reach a level of uniform color

f ) lay down one final coat with no wet sanding.

AN IMPORTANT NOTE FOR THE FINAL COATING : I have read on the Interlux site and on the various boaters boards that for the final coat YOU NEED TO LAY IT DOWN WHEN THE HUMIDITY IS VERY LOW AND THE TEMPERATURE IS COOL. This will MAXIMIZE the quality of the gloss on that final coating. This HELPFUL HINT may also be applicable to the Tremclad painters. So ideally the final coat should probably be laid down in the early morning of a non-humid day.

At this point I would guess you let it cure for a while to reach maximum hardness - and then we can look at polishing techniques to maximize the gloss ( although that final level of gloss may be better than most people would have expected.

I notice over at the Interlux web site they have created washes and waxes for the BRIGHTSIDE paint... so maybe we can get our hints for what to do from there or by scouring the boating message forums and learn from some nautical salts what they do..

marq

Last edited by Marq; 06/29/06 05:24 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24871
06/29/06 05:16 PM
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Marq, great information you have gathered. Get us some pics of the test areas you have done... I am curious to see, as I am sure others are too. BTW did you lay on the brightside straight out of the can, or did you cut it some to thin it out?

For someone who is still in the body prep stages any further information you guys are providing is priceless and greatly appreciated.

Last edited by cyberbackpacker; 06/29/06 05:56 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24872
06/29/06 06:16 PM
06/29/06 06:16 PM
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Marq- how hard/soft are you touching it with the foam brush afterward?

This stuff sounds like a magical version of rustoleum at this point, but then again parts of this remind me of rustoleum mixed with penetrol since (if mixed right anyways) it inevitibly leads to self leveling. The gloss quality is probably where the difference is. But the problem still exists that crap is going to happen to that final coat to where wetsanding is necessary. Perhaps not as necessary on a boat because how close do you actually get to that part of a boat to see the stuff that's wrong with it? But on a car there will be the dust specs, the dog hair, the foam roller particles, which people will notice when walking up to the car etc. After the final wetsand of either type of paint, the shine will be on the shoulders of the person who will polish it, and it seems like tremclad and rustoleum shine well in the right hands (even in my hands, I got the safety red to shine OK).

Another thought -do you know if they make spray cans of this stuff for touchups (or in the case of cars, doorjambs and engine bays), or is it just in liquid form?

Also I'll tell the gang here that I have switched colors, to canvas white which I think looks better than the almond or plain white for this car. Safety red just didn't do it for me. I know a lot of people liked it, and so did I, just not for my car. Anyways I've put my 2nd coat on this morning, and hope to have it 90% done by next Tuesday. Right now, the true shade of canvas white is not showing through but it's already covering much faster than the Red. 4 coats should have it solid, another 2 for good measure. I took 3 days off work to be able to paint it in the mornings while it's under 80 degrees F.

Here's a familiar shot:





Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24873
06/29/06 06:25 PM
06/29/06 06:25 PM

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alright... what about Valspar Anti-Rust in a "Clear Base Coat"?? Would that work as a clear coat?

heres a link... http://www.hectorshardware.biz/shop/product.asp?dept_id=150503&sku=777148&



.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24874
06/29/06 06:47 PM
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[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]! Exit1965, your fast! did you went over the red? your using Brightside now?

since this boat paint hardens instead of that wait...(for it to really hardens) i can spray this maybe 2 coats and be done (over my green rusto) thats great info marq, im thinking about it

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24875
06/29/06 07:18 PM
06/29/06 07:18 PM
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Quote:

[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]! Exit1965, your fast! did you went over the red? your using Brightside now?

since this boat paint hardens instead of that wait...(for it to really hardens) i can spray this maybe 2 coats and be done (over my green rusto) thats great info marq, im thinking about it




Umm, no not that fast. I'm sticking with Rustoleum. I'm going to take advantage of the spray for certain areas like door jambs and probably the engine bay.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24876
06/29/06 09:15 PM
06/29/06 09:15 PM
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Ok... some quick answers to a bunch of questions....

- Forget about ValSPAR... it will always remain too soft to be practical on a car. My wife used the Valspar products to refinish two sets of dresser drawers. It is beautiful but soft ( even 5 years after she did it ).

- I painted the WHOLE CAR tonight. I was very excited by the test patches. It turned out amazing for one coat. The gloss of the entire body will blind you

- I used the BRIGHTSIDE straight out of the can without cutting it with their thinning product #333.

- You roll it just like you would the Tremclad. Then, when you finish a section and you take your foam 3 or 4 inch brush and lightly brush over the entire surface. You will know when you are using the right pressure when the bubbles all disappear magically after just one pass of the brush.

I will try to take pictures by Saturday. I should have been able to wet sand the current coat and laid on the 2nd coat. I believe you will fall in love with what this stuff is doing.

- The only thing I noticed tonight is that I was putting about 1/3 of a can into my tray. By the time I had worked my way around to using most of that allotment of paint, it had begun to thicken - having evaporated from the tray the solvents. You can tell when the tray needs to be refreshed with a fresh bunch of paint when the paint you are applying to the car does not pop the bubbles as easily when you run the foam brush over it. Add some fresh paint to your tray and things will begin working just like when you began.

- The coverage of the paint over the body did prove to be better than the thinned out Tremclad. The Brightside was able to do a fairly decent job of covering up the white, black and red colors on the prepared body surface.


- I am not sure if they have spray cans for this product. I seem to think that I read somewhere that they did... but I know the marine store where I picked up my quarts did not have a spray version... just the liquid form. I guess that is because more of the boat guys do the 'roll and tip' method. The other reason might be that it is a health hazzard spraying this type of paint. You will notice that Interlux even says " if you want to sprary this stuff then contact us directly for more information ".

- Exit... do me a favor ( and yourself ) and locate even just one can of Brightside to experiment with. Because it is a poly finish it is automatically closer in chemical structure to the automotive paint of the same type. Therefore the finish polishing would be exactly the same as if you had the car sprayed with MAACO's top of the line paint. I think if we can get you to play with this stuff you will defect over to the Brightside camp. And as my full painting of the car tonight proved.. the Tremclad underneath presented no problems to the application of this Brightside paint over it. So all your Rustoleum work will not be lost. But most of all... you are probably in the best position to confirm my observations about using this stuff.

Heck... if they had an ORANGE Brightside paint I suspect that even Charger might try a little experiment with this stuff just to check out its ease of application and highly glossy results.

- And a message to that guy who was having a problem convincing his parents about a 'roller paint job'. Your parents had concerns about 'fade' of the Rustoleum / Tremclad method. I think you should have no problem convincing them about the merits of the BRIGHTSIDE paint. Since the paint is designed to be put on boats - which in most cases are worth a HECK OF A LOT MORE than our cars.. and those boats are exposed to the elements etc... the fade factor is a non-factor for this boat paint. Hope this helps you to convince them and put their minds at ease...


marq
.

Last edited by Marq; 06/29/06 09:34 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24877
06/29/06 11:14 PM
06/29/06 11:14 PM

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Marq--Photos! I want to see this.

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