Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
#2482576
04/14/18 01:48 PM
04/14/18 01:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446
Michigan
|
Uncle Sam decided to give me more of my money back this year, so I'm doing my part and stimulating the economy with it.
Going to put a Sniper EFI kit on my 512, but I need a fuel system. This being a Fifth Avenue there isn't any aftermarket support in the way of pre-bent lines or retrofit EFI gas tanks.
I'm thinking of using that copper-nickle alloy tubing for the lines, 3/8" feed and return. I've read of people using it in carb'd applications, but not so much with fuel injection. Is it OK at higher pressures? I really don't want to screw around with SS and only want to do this once (hence the corrosion resistance).
For the pump something that installs in the tank would be preferred. I've read on the 340 Aeromotive retrofit kit. I don't relish replacing the tank though; which I see is commonplace for this type of install. I replaced the tank ten years ago and the car sits in a garage - it still looks new.
Ideas?
Again, thanks guys. This forum has been a god send over the years.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2483631
04/16/18 03:10 PM
04/16/18 03:10 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 59 Florida
Sweet5ltr
member
|
member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 59
Florida
|
Uncle Sam decided to give me more of my money back this year, so I'm doing my part and stimulating the economy with it.
Going to put a Sniper EFI kit on my 512, but I need a fuel system. This being a Fifth Avenue there isn't any aftermarket support in the way of pre-bent lines or retrofit EFI gas tanks.
I'm thinking of using that copper-nickle alloy tubing for the lines, 3/8" feed and return. I've read of people using it in carb'd applications, but not so much with fuel injection. Is it OK at higher pressures? I really don't want to screw around with SS and only want to do this once (hence the corrosion resistance).
For the pump something that installs in the tank would be preferred. I've read on the 340 Aeromotive retrofit kit. I don't relish replacing the tank though; which I see is commonplace for this type of install. I replaced the tank ten years ago and the car sits in a garage - it still looks new.
Ideas?
Again, thanks guys. This forum has been a god send over the years. Inline Walbro 255. Ran two since 2013. No issues. Aeroquip Socketless Hose, temperature range is good from -40* F / 300* F. 250psi. It's used on OEM Commercial applications. I use a simple $15 Klein PVC cutting tool, works better than a Razor to make a clean cut. Other than that, just fab up some aluminum 1/2" forward / return lines. About 12-years ago I had the factory tank sumped in a fox-body mustang, this may be another alternative. Only cost $200 +/- back then.
Last edited by Sweet5ltr; 04/16/18 03:12 PM.
1969 Plymouth Road Runner (440 w/ Boost! RIP) now a low-deck 470 with hotchkis suspension, nascar boom tube exhaust, & big brakes.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2484167
04/17/18 12:43 PM
04/17/18 12:43 PM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
|
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
|
My first setup was a stock tank with a sump and pump mounted under the tank using carriage bolts in the tank straps to hold the pump bracket. With the external pump, had to run a 100 micron pre-filter too. It worked fine but did not look good having the sump, filter, and pump all under the tank.
I like the in-tank fuel pump. The pump has the screen/hydromat so don't need the separate pre-filter like an external setup. The in-tank pump also runs cooler and quieter, but really it is just less connections and a cleaner install. The issues with the in-tank setup is fuel pickup when the tank is low on fuel, and tank to trunk floor clearance for the pump fittings. For your application it looks like you would have to modify the tank for clearance?
The surge tank was a solution for keeping the EFI pump submerged in fuel before the pumps with sumps, hydromat, and EFI baffled tanks existed. It is many more connections and lines, and an extra fuel pump. In my opinion, the money spent on a surge tank could be spent in modifying a stock tank for EFI. If you don't want to work/weld on your old tank that had gas in it, those tanks are less than $100 brand new.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2484378
04/17/18 09:13 PM
04/17/18 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482 Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
|
I have the Aeromotive Phantom 340, and did the swap in 2015, it's great, no fuel pump noise, picks up fuel well, etc. My opinion is an in tank pump is a must for longevity.
If you're willing to do so, I'd imagine you could fill the tank with water while you're drilling the holes to mitigate any explosiveness of the fuel vapor.
You are referring to "NiCopp" tubing? Its DOT approved for brake line so it will work fine for fuel line. I have a reproduction 3/8 steel line for feed and a home made 3/8 return. The rest of the lines are Aeroquip TFE
You've seen my car, nobody has any idea it has EFI (and multiport with coil near plug) unless the hood is open.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2487396
04/24/18 05:52 PM
04/24/18 05:52 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446
Michigan
|
Thanks for input guys. In a previous thread it was recommended to run the same size return as the feed (3/8th), so that's I planned to do. The cost of the line is trivial with the nickle copper stuff.
I thought about a surge tank, but I'm trying to clean the bay up. Might even mount the MSD inside the car.
You guys are right, an in-tank solution is the best way to do it. It would add about $1k to the cost of the conversion though and I just can't swing that this year. I think I'm going to order the Sniper kit that includes the fuel pump and mount it outside the front of the tank. There is a plastic splash shield between the diff and the tank that I can replace with a fabricated one out of aluminum; which should give me a good place to mount the pump lower than the fuel level. This only needs to last a year. I'll use next year's budget to install a pump in the tank.
Thanks guys.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: topside]
#2489461
04/29/18 12:36 PM
04/29/18 12:36 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446
Michigan
|
Did a couple of LS installs on FJ40s a couple years back, used a Corvette in-line pump for 58PSI. Wasn't very loud, parts-store stuff, maybe $50-ish. Frankly I was surprised how well they work, as generally the high-pressure pumps are better off in-tank being cooled by the fuel. I've used the Moroso aluminum tubing & Earl's fittings on several cars, oldest was done in 1988; all still going strong. Pretty easy to work with & follow factory routing. I use fire sleeve as covering to prevent damage, and of course grommets for through-frame routing. I've seen the Corvette in-line pump mod mentioned on other forums before. What years was that pump used? Thanks!
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2489940
04/30/18 01:13 PM
04/30/18 01:13 PM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
|
master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
|
Been learning more on this EFI stuff. On the return line, you might be able to use stock 5/16" line, with 3/8" supply, but if starting from scratch, 3/8" return is the easy choice. It seems the return size will depend on the pump flow rate, and pressure. The interesting part is the lower the rail pressure (by-passing more fuel), the larger return line needed. Also, higher engine vacuum will lower the rail pressure (regulator referenced to manifold pressure) even more from the static regulator setting. It just seems strange to me that the lower performance engine would need the larger return lines, but you have to by-pass more fuel.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2490140
04/30/18 09:36 PM
04/30/18 09:36 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664 IN
ahy
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
|
Been learning more on this EFI stuff. On the return line, you might be able to use stock 5/16" line, with 3/8" supply, but if starting from scratch, 3/8" return is the easy choice. It seems the return size will depend on the pump flow rate, and pressure. The interesting part is the lower the rail pressure (by-passing more fuel), the larger return line needed. Also, higher engine vacuum will lower the rail pressure (regulator referenced to manifold pressure) even more from the static regulator setting. It just seems strange to me that the lower performance engine would need the larger return lines, but you have to by-pass more fuel. I tested this idea on my setup. 3/8" supply and 5/16" return through re-pop steel lines (most of the way... some AN at connections). With the fuel pump "on", a really big A1000 pump and a charger on the battery to simulate running voltage conditions I could regulate a steady pressure down to about 30 PSI. Since I was running 45 PSI fuel pressure this works fine. As mentioned above low fuel pressure would require a bigger return line. With 45 psi target pressure, 5/16" return worked fine. Also no regulation issues after quite a few miles.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel System for a 512 /w Holley Sniper EFI
[Re: MarkZ]
#2500629
05/26/18 11:28 AM
05/26/18 11:28 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,446
Michigan
|
Just posting a follow up. I bought the master kit that included an external fuel pump and made a bracket out of aluminum to mount it to and mounted that to the tank strap bolts. Had just enough clearance between the tank and diff. Replaced the factory steel lines with 3/8" nickle-copper for both the feed and return. Was also able to use bulkhead fitting in the sender to plumb 3/8" into the tank. Worked well. Thanks again Moparts.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
|
|