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Neutral safety switch
#2475054
03/31/18 08:27 PM
03/31/18 08:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
dfsmopars
OP
top fuel
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
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Replaced an A/T with a new Temec. All is good but there is an annoyance. Wired in the neutral safety switch but that things does its clicking thing every time the shifter passes through neutral when being shifted. I could jump it out perhaps but I am hoping for options. I’d rather have the switch operational but I am not going to be able to tolerate the constant clicking under the dash. Ideas?
BTW this is in a ‘72 Charger.
Last edited by dfsmopars; 03/31/18 08:28 PM.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2475286
04/01/18 12:39 PM
04/01/18 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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Wire it into the clutch pedal as it was intended. I hear the thrust bearing debate but personally I've had over 20 manually transmission cars and none of them have wore out the thrust bearing.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#2475395
04/01/18 02:52 PM
04/01/18 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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Ground the "G" terminal on the relay and don't look back.  The clutch switch is a product of out nanny guv'ment; if you don't check your shifter position before starting, you have no business in a car.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2475487
04/01/18 05:52 PM
04/01/18 05:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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I have seen kids playing with ign keys on switches... sooo, better keep the safety feature.
Also on a parking lot, one of the crew cranked a 76 Dart from a buddy locally without check the shifter, it was in R. Short story... bumper fix and new tail lights allong with some body job
once again, truth or not the shifter must be checked, better keep the safety feature.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2475502
04/01/18 06:43 PM
04/01/18 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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I have seen kids playing with ign keys on switches... sooo, better keep the safety feature. Discipline the kids, don't punish drivers. 
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2475515
04/01/18 06:56 PM
04/01/18 06:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Ground the "G" terminal on the relay and don't look back. The clutch switch is a product of out nanny guv'ment; if you don't check your shifter position before starting, you have no business in a car. Agreed!... This is how I've done ALL my manual transmission swaps or eliminated factory interlocks, factory 4spd or 5/6 speed... no need for any type of electrical lock out device, you should know the condition/position/operation of your equipment before you turn the key... Mike
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2475627
04/01/18 10:02 PM
04/01/18 10:02 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,841
South Bend
John Brown
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South Bend
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Ground the "G" terminal on the relay and don't look back. The clutch switch is a product of out nanny guv'ment; if you don't check your shifter position before starting, you have no business in a car. Agreed!... This is how I've done ALL my manual transmission swaps or eliminated factory interlocks, factory 4spd or 5/6 speed... no need for any type of electrical lock out device, you should know the condition/position/operation of your equipment before you turn the key... Mike That's the same thing I said.... just before I hit the key in the 56 Cadillac and drove it into the side of the building. Who would have thought anyone would have swapped a 1951 stick tranny, column shift and all, into a 56 Cadillac. Certainly not me. Luckily no harm was done to the car cause the bumper bullets just put two hickeys on the side of the building. Everyone that would have cared is long gone now, so I'm free to share my embarrassment. On the other side, I have disabled all those silly clutch switches on every stick shift car or truck I have ever owned. Hope no future buyers got into trouble because of it.
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2475641
04/01/18 10:41 PM
04/01/18 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,364
PA
70HemiGTX
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PA
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My question is this...If starting a vehicle with the clutch pushed in is hard on a thrust bearing or a throw-out bearing, then what does it do to the bearings shifting at 5/6000 rpm? If you are wearing out your thrust bearing (which one exactly?) or throw-out bearing while starting your vehicle, you have some other serious issues going on in your system.
Yes safety switches are a pain, but I think having something happen that is preventable is also not something you want. Yes I check my shifter to see that it is in neutral everytime I start a vehicle, but there is always that one time when you are in a hurry and you don't quite go through your progression like normal and something stupid happens. Think about it, we are human, we make mistakes. We hope we don't make mistakes, but we do and they happen very quickly. That is life. That's my $0.02....
Last edited by 70HemiGTX; 04/01/18 10:42 PM.
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: TJP]
#2475643
04/01/18 10:47 PM
04/01/18 10:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
dfsmopars
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Kentucky
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If one wants to spend some time it could be accomplished by wiring in a relay that is only energized in the start position. Kind of a PITA but fairly simple to accomplish.  I like the concept of this but at the moment I have no idea how to do it. But I will give it some thought and effort. Jim, thanks for the direction on the “G” terminal. My ownership of manuals has been four vehicles over 41 years, everything from a three on the tree to a six speed Tremec. So can’t say I have had enough of them to develop any real habits but I have always been a fan of putting it neutral before turning the key. Thanks to my Moparts friends who have been such a tremendous resource over the years.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2475727
04/02/18 12:46 AM
04/02/18 12:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,588
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I Live Here
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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I have seen kids playing with ign keys on switches... sooo, better keep the safety feature. Discipline the kids, don't punish drivers. What do I do about NHRA rules??
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: 70HemiGTX]
#2475770
04/02/18 01:12 AM
04/02/18 01:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
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Fresno, CA
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My question is this...If starting a vehicle with the clutch pushed in is hard on a thrust bearing or a throw-out bearing, then what does it do to the bearings shifting at 5/6000 rpm? If you are wearing out your thrust bearing (which one exactly?) or throw-out bearing while starting your vehicle, you have some other serious issues going on in your system.
Yes safety switches are a pain, but I think having something happen that is preventable is also not something you want. Yes I check my shifter to see that it is in neutral everytime I start a vehicle, but there is always that one time when you are in a hurry and you don't quite go through your progression like normal and something stupid happens. Think about it, we are human, we make mistakes. We hope we don't make mistakes, but we do and they happen very quickly. That is life. That's my $0.02.... There's only one thrust bearing. On most engines it is the middle main. You have all of the weight of the pressure plate on a dry thrust bearing. When shifting the weight is on an oiled bearing and only for a short time. None of the 1960s Mopars had a clutch switch and none of the 1980s Mopars that I owned had one.
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2476217
04/02/18 05:57 PM
04/02/18 05:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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I have seen kids playing with ign keys on switches... sooo, better keep the safety feature. Discipline the kids, don't punish drivers. What do I do about NHRA rules?? Like I said, nanny rules to protect against idiots.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2476503
04/02/18 10:36 PM
04/02/18 10:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
dfsmopars
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OP
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Re-installed the Dyna-max exhaust tonight and got to drive it through town without the noise of open headers. I am trying to find a way to isolate the noise of the switch so it can stay. Already improved it some but not totally gone. Maybe I’ll learn to live with it some. Thanks for all the input. I’ll keep working on it and come up with something one way or another based on my new info.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2476610
04/03/18 02:09 AM
04/03/18 02:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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no, but NSS feeds the ground for seatbelts warning relay and buzzer, although somebody told me the 72 was quite diff on that, not being the NSS but emergency brake signal  73 diagram shows the NSS source for that ( same to 74 interlock ). Haven't checked really a 72 diagram to confirm that but even will work, I know 72 tranny harness gets the NSS ground signal into the cab like 73 and 74
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2476640
04/03/18 07:41 AM
04/03/18 07:41 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
dfsmopars
OP
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OP
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Kentucky
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Is the transmission switch clicking or the relay?
I don't have a '72 wiring diagram. Could the NSS be connected to part of the ignition key buzzer? or other saftey interlock circuit under the dash? You mentioned under the sound is under the dash, and the starter relay I think is in the engine compartment (and is should not click when key is not in the start position anyhow.)
If the switch in the transmission is making a noise, check that there is a gasket between the switch and transmission case. When I got my trans from Keisler the NSS was not working. Installed too deep into the trans because they forgot the washer and it smashed the end of the NSS. Had to replace the damaged switch and install with correct washer for spacing.
The clicking is coming when the relay contacts close everytime the shifter passes through neutral. The relay is mounted just under the lip if the dash next to the glove box. The relay always made the same noise with the automatic trannys that have been in there. As said before, very simple but effective circuit.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2476677
04/03/18 10:46 AM
04/03/18 10:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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Is the transmission switch clicking or the relay?
I don't have a '72 wiring diagram. Could the NSS be connected to part of the ignition key buzzer? or other saftey interlock circuit under the dash? You mentioned under the sound is under the dash, and the starter relay I think is in the engine compartment (and is should not click when key is not in the start position anyhow.)
If the switch in the transmission is making a noise, check that there is a gasket between the switch and transmission case. When I got my trans from Keisler the NSS was not working. Installed too deep into the trans because they forgot the washer and it smashed the end of the NSS. Had to replace the damaged switch and install with correct washer for spacing.
The clicking is coming when the relay contacts close everytime the shifter passes through neutral. The relay is mounted just under the lip if the dash next to the glove box. The relay always made the same noise with the automatic trannys that have been in there. As said before, very simple but effective circuit. ok THAT relay is for the seatbelt warning signal not for starting. Its only function is make to light up the dash seatbelt light at map light insert and make to buzz the buzzer as soon you put the tranny in gear and seatbelts are not fastened. Is deactivated when in P or N, just like the starter relay, hence the reason could be clicking when you pass through N. Never have known this relay could be really audible that loud  
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2476840
04/03/18 04:12 PM
04/03/18 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
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The clicking is coming when the relay contacts close everytime the shifter passes through neutral.
Sounds like you're using BAT or IGN1 as a source for the pull-in coil in the relay, if you use IGN2 as the source it will only be energized when the switch is in Start. (Assuming the ign sw. is stock.)
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2476947
04/03/18 07:09 PM
04/03/18 07:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
dfsmopars
OP
top fuel
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OP
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Kentucky
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Pictures below. First one clicks with the ignition switch. The second is the one that clicks with the shifter. They are side by side between the glove box and ash tray. All favtorycwiring. All that is plugged into the fuse box is and 8 track tape player in IGN1.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Neutral safety switch
[Re: dfsmopars]
#2476959
04/03/18 07:30 PM
04/03/18 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,894
Rio Linda, CA
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Use a regular ISO relay and use IGN2 or the yellow start wire to power the pull-in coil and you won't have the annoying click with every shift.
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