Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
#2434210
01/14/18 01:02 AM
01/14/18 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,110 SC
V194
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440 or stroked Big block OR 5.7-6.4 modern hemi
Which is cheapest to hit the Hp goal of 650-700HP?
Last edited by V194; 01/14/18 01:23 AM.
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Re: Dollor for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: bobby66]
#2434216
01/14/18 01:17 AM
01/14/18 01:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,110 SC
V194
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I think there are some build ups in the tech archive that will get you where you want to go. Yes I have read them just wanting to know dollar for dollar which is the lowest cost option to achieve the goal. Big block or new hemi?
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Re: Dollor for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434250
01/14/18 02:48 AM
01/14/18 02:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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Most likely a B/RB. 650 horespower doesn't really have a low cost option. Lol. Or not one that will live very long!
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434253
01/14/18 03:06 AM
01/14/18 03:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Your goals are achievable with the correct good parts, a good sonic tested 400 block, 4.250 stroke crankshaft kit with the longest forged H beam steel rods you can use, 10.0 to 10.7 to 1 compression with a set of the new Trick Flow 270 CC heads and a matching intake manifold with a 1000 + CFM carb and a good high lift medium duration (245 to 265 @.050 with a LCA from 105 to 110)camshaft and rocker arm kit My first 400 stroker (511 C.I. 4.375 bore with 4.25 stroke))had 9.25 to 1 compression with a set of mildy ported 906 heads with bigger valves and a low deck six pack set up. That combination made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM, I put that motor in a 3450+ Lbs. 1971 Duster that ran 10.69 at 124.+ MPH through the complete to the rear bumper 3.0 inch exhaust system on with the air cleaner on A later change to a set CNC ported Eddy RPM heads picked it up 10.49 at 127+ MPH on Oregon 91 octane pump swill That was back in the early to mid 2000 so don't ask me about the prices now I beat the snout out of that motor, I did make a lot of changes to it in the ten years I owned and raced it but it was the same cam and lifters and bore size with the original pistons when I traded it off for my current race car The cheapest way to make your HP goals may be a used lat emodel Hemi and a lot of NOS, no way to tell how long a stock motor will take 200 to 400 HP of NOS A decent built pump gas BB stroker motor will make that amount of power for a long time, trust me on that
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434291
01/14/18 06:26 AM
01/14/18 06:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,673 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Personally I'm thinking the 3rd Gen hemi is the way to go. The heads supossedely flow over 300 cfm in near stock trim so they should easily support over 600 hp NA. A turbo or supercharger and you're there.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434388
01/14/18 01:35 PM
01/14/18 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,140 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
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I'll throw in my two cents. I'd go with a 500CI stroker kit in a 440. Some aftermarket aluminum heads, good intake and carb. I am not an expert at recommending cams, so I will delegate that to someone else. I would think nothing too radical would be needed in the cam area to get to 650 hp. But, if you are going to stroke any block (RB or Gen II hemi), might as well get the most cubes as possible.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: BDW]
#2434422
01/14/18 02:40 PM
01/14/18 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,452 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
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That 10k figure includes ancillary items as well for building old iron where the hemi doesn't. I just built a 512 and it cost me just a bit over that out the door. That 15k Hemi still needs a harness, fuel system, computer, pan and exhaust. All that stuff being for late model is tons more expensive than it's old school equivalents as well. Cost parity is coming, but I don't thinks it's there yet.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434451
01/14/18 03:20 PM
01/14/18 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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First question, what's your budget for the "complete" motor? Carb to pan, headers, distributor, plugs, wires, oil,..... Everything.
Then, is your car currently equipped with a fuel and cooling system capable of supporting a 650hp motor?
If not, are those upgrades budgeted separately...... Or do they need to be included in the "engine" budget?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2434499
01/14/18 05:14 PM
01/14/18 05:14 PM
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V194
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First question, what's your budget for the "complete" motor? Carb to pan, headers, distributor, plugs, wires, oil,..... Everything.
Then, is your car currently equipped with a fuel and cooling system capable of supporting a 650hp motor?
If not, are those upgrades budgeted separately...... Or do they need to be included in the "engine" budget? The question boils down to this. Irrespective of any other factor is it 'cheaper" to build a BB or BB stroker OR new hemi to support a 650-700hp target STREETABLE aka hot rod, restomod or whatever you like (in other words not a full time race car) This is more of a what if or a bench racing question not a How do I build... question.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434545
01/14/18 06:22 PM
01/14/18 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 960 Chicago
PurpleBeeper
super stock
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super stock
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I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here, but a good solid 440 (forged pistons, maybe a girdle and some good heads) with nitrous oxide will get you there. You will be right on the limit of a stock block, but the car can easily be streetable since you won't need a huge cam.
70 Roadrunner convt. street car
440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs
'96 Mustang GT convt. street car
'04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered
"Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434581
01/14/18 07:26 PM
01/14/18 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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"Cheapest" is probably a used 5.7/6.4 with a turbo kit.
The LS guys make more than that with used 5.3's with turbos on them.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: JAMESDART]
#2434640
01/14/18 10:15 PM
01/14/18 10:15 PM
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I did a mild, street driver 505" 440 for right at $7,500. Molnar crank and rods, Mahle pistons and CNC Stealth heads. It's just under 600 HP but more than enough for the street and a blast at the track!
You save a lot of money if you can build it yourself.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2434677
01/14/18 10:55 PM
01/14/18 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,938 Central Florida
larrymopar360
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I think MarkM hits the nail on the head first. Older car will cost so much more to wire it up with the proper harnesses, etc. to support the newer Hemi.
Next I agree with Cab Burge. Stroked 400. The more I read about stroking a 400 the more I like!
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2434831
01/15/18 03:49 AM
01/15/18 03:49 AM
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GTX MATT
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"Cheapest" is probably a used 5.7/6.4 with a turbo kit.
The LS guys make more than that with used 5.3's with turbos on them. I would think a a Gen 3 with a turbo kit also, but you could also easily run the bill up to equal or far more than your basic B/RB would be to make the same power. It all depends on your approach. But I think it can be done cheaper. The main disadvantage that you have with a B/RB is its already going to need a rebuild unless you find a good engine for a song. Everyone thinks their junk 440 that burns oil and has 100 psi cranking compression is worth what those 5.7s on CL cost...
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/15/18 03:50 AM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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