Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
#2420927
12/19/17 02:05 PM
12/19/17 02:05 PM
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Posts: 3,443 Northern N.J.
hemi_doug
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I need a little help in building my 65 Plymouth bracket car. The car is being built to perform in the 10.0 range using Caltracs and mono leafs. I am beginning to turn my attention to the front end now. What are some of the issues I will be facing when setting the front end up for racing? I understand the early B body parts are different then the later years. Do I stick with the stock geometry or update to the later one? What about oil pan and fitment issues? Should I use stock alignment specs? I will be using an engine plate so I might be able to move it back some. Any advice or recommendations would be welcome.
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2420936
12/19/17 02:32 PM
12/19/17 02:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848 MI, usa
dvw
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The only difference besides motor mounts is the single stud idler arm. 6 cylinder bars will have the most stored energy to help pitch rotate. Use offset upper control arm bushings from Moog to gain caster. I shortened my strut rods 3/8" by cutting off the ends. Then turned them down in a lathe. Slid .090"×.750" Moly tubing over the ends then welded. This gained caster as well. The outer tie rods are replaced with custom fabbed tie rod sleeves, Speedway tapered studs, and heim joints. This was done to obtain zero toe throughout front travel. To be honest it wasn't to bad to start with. Along with good shocks will do it. Cut the K-frame to get at the pan easier. Mine regularly runs 145+, sons runs 138+ Doug
Last edited by dvw; 12/19/17 11:38 PM.
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2420992
12/19/17 04:14 PM
12/19/17 04:14 PM
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hemi_doug
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I'll be using a motor and mid plate so moving the engine back will not be an issue with regards to K frame. I am more concerned with geometry and making the car consistent as well as any issues with oil pan and any interference with the center link. I'd like to do this one time instead of trial and error. My kid will be moving up to this car from Jr Dragsters in the next year or so, so whatever I do it needs to be both safe and consistent. This is my first real "race" car build as opposed to the several street car/restorations that I have done in the past. It's been a learning experience so far. The one thing I have learned over the years is to learn from other people's mistakes.
I'd like to know more about how the strut rods improve the reaction of the car. How do you adjust them for optimal performance? What are you looking for in how the car reacts?
Last edited by hemi_doug; 12/19/17 05:36 PM.
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: webemopes]
#2421249
12/20/17 12:47 AM
12/20/17 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI
dizuster
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all we did was put on magnumforce uppers and rms strut rods and qa 1 stocker star front shocks.didnt touch his tune .car jumped into the lower 1.30s and went a best of a 9.98.stock stuff may work but I wont use it .anyone can do what they want just our experiences No doubt the shocks were the best money spent out of that set. Put the old shocks on and I bet it goes back to 1.80's. Strut rods and upper control arms arent picking anything up 3 tenths.
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: dizuster]
#2421295
12/20/17 02:21 AM
12/20/17 02:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,684 Wichita
GY3
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I'm slower in the low 11's and have run a best of 1.54 60 ft.
The car had /6 torsion bars already, a fresh rebuild of all the components and rubber bushings.
60 ft.'s were horrible when I started but dropped considerably after simply installing 90/10 adjustable front shocks and eliminating the upper control arm bumper.
I just added adjustable rear shocks, Cal-Tracs and split mono's so we will see.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421316
12/20/17 03:14 AM
12/20/17 03:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,588 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I also have a stock front end with the engine moved back a little over 2 inches. I obtained a pair of black powder coated aluminum strut bars.They are part of the winter diet
Last edited by hemi-itis; 12/20/17 03:15 AM.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421373
12/20/17 11:36 AM
12/20/17 11:36 AM
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hemi_doug
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Thanks for all the good info. I think I have a path forward. Seems to me the biggest factor are quality adjustable shocks. I look forward to getting this project completed and making some passes next year. Should be a blast to shake out...I know my daughter is looking forward to it, she asks about it every day. She's a hell of a driver and she should do very well if I can get this thing sorted out and consistent.
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421383
12/20/17 12:04 PM
12/20/17 12:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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dannysbee
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Enjoy it. Making memories is awesome!
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421416
12/20/17 01:18 PM
12/20/17 01:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,588 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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Yes,I also have Vikings on all 4 now tipping the scales @ 3700 with me in. Will be cracking the 8's & 150 MPH in the spring.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421422
12/20/17 01:28 PM
12/20/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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hemi_doug
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That's great to hear hemi-itis. good luck and keep me posted. Where will you be making passes, E-Town? Make sure you stop by the 1/8 mile track and look me up...I'll be there from time to time Jr. Racing. The points guys hate it when we pull in... She won everytime we raced there this year...
Last edited by hemi_doug; 12/20/17 01:35 PM.
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421434
12/20/17 02:01 PM
12/20/17 02:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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The only thing I done to mine was the RMS strut rods and a basic rebuild with new upper arms. E-body arms bolt right on and I replaced the bushings with the MOOG offset units like Doug mentioned. The RMS strut rods really improved the braking stability at high speeds. I still have the 6 cylinder bars and my car is more street than strip so I just went with KYB gas shocks. My car 60's 1.51 with just a basic 454-455 springs and Rancho's. Just a basic set-up seems to work good with these cars Gus
Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 12/20/17 02:07 PM.
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421438
12/20/17 02:19 PM
12/20/17 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443 Northern N.J.
hemi_doug
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Why did you switch to E body uppers? Nice ride!
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421448
12/20/17 02:38 PM
12/20/17 02:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Why did you switch to E body uppers? Nice ride! When I checked part numbers they were the same as E-body and everybody knows what a Cuda is. Thanks I love my Savoy Gus
Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 12/20/17 02:41 PM.
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Setting up front end for early B bodys for bracket racing
[Re: hemi_doug]
#2421452
12/20/17 02:50 PM
12/20/17 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443 Northern N.J.
hemi_doug
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LOL..I was going to say I thought E and B body were the same...I know the later B Bodys for sure but you never know for the pre 66 stuff...I am having to re-learn some of the parts interchangeability with the early cars...
Last edited by hemi_doug; 12/20/17 02:50 PM.
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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