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Tire height impact on 4 link? #2420417
12/18/17 05:06 PM
12/18/17 05:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,413
Johnstown
69dart Offline OP
pro stock
69dart  Offline OP
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Johnstown
It's the off-season and I've been pondering why my car works better with 33x10.5 tires versus the 14x32 tire.

The extra 1" of height seems to make the 4 link happier. The issue I have is since I'm a bottom bulb guy I can't hit the tree with the 33" rear tire. Trust me ive tried everything on that front.

Anyway I put 14x32s back on but what chassis adjustments could I try to make it happier? The car still works pretty good but it could be better.

My first thought is raise the body one bolt but I don't think that's the solution.

Anyway maybe a moparts chassis guru can help me understand how rear tire height effects the 4 link geometry. ☺


33 Plymouth Roadster - 383 - 5.90 1/8th 9.58 1/4
68 Dart - 340
66 Belvedere - 400

Windy Hollow Garage - https://www.youtube.com/@windyhollowgarage
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420433
12/18/17 05:29 PM
12/18/17 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,840
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
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Fulton County, PA
If it does not change the location of the rear housing in the chassis, I.E. move the housing up or down in relation to the chassis brackets, it doesn't change the geometry, which is the relationship between the chassis brackets and the housing brackets. If the reaction times go away with the tall tire, what makes you say the car works better?

In the past, I've turned a car that was not aggressive enough to begin with, into a real turd, simply by taking a 100" tire off and putting a 104" on it.

If you are shortening the shock length or moving shock mounts to lower ride height back to where it was before putting the tall tires on, then you are changing geometry.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 12/18/17 06:13 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420436
12/18/17 05:30 PM
12/18/17 05:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
The 33s are dropping the lower bars down in the
front so the IC has changed.. check both tires
to see your change
wave

Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: CMcAllister] #2420480
12/18/17 06:15 PM
12/18/17 06:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted By CMcAllister
If it does not change the location of the rear housing in the chassis, I.E. move the housing up or down in relation to the chassis brackets, it doesn't change the geometry, which is the relationship between the chassis brackets and the housing brackets. If the reaction times go away with the tall tire, what makes you say the car works better?

In the past, I've turned a car that was not aggressive enough to begin with, into a real turd, simply by taking a 100" tire off and putting a 104" on it.


Your correct.. the IC shouldnt change just the
tire dia did
wave

Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420653
12/18/17 10:45 PM
12/18/17 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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TRENDZ  Offline
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Milwaukee WI
Given the same axle to chassis dimensions (no suspension adjustments) what you are changing (slightly) is the center of gravity (forward &up) and lowering the anti squat line.
The chassis should separate easier with the same shock settings.
To get the chassis to do the same thing with the shorter tire, you would need to change the static i/c slightly rearward and slightly up.
You must also consider the tire compound & sidewall. It may not be so much the tire HEIGHT that is giving you the changes you are noticing.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: TRENDZ] #2420713
12/19/17 12:24 AM
12/19/17 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,413
Johnstown
69dart Offline OP
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69dart  Offline OP
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Johnstown
I think it has to do with the body pitch at the hit. With the 33's the body sits slightly higher in the rear which puts the nose down. At launch the front end comes up much more with the 33's rather than with the 32's. Better weight transfer or stored energy I'm guessing.

I know Jed of the 'Luke and Jed podcast' fame put larger front tires on his Nova and it caused a massive wheelstand compared with his smaller front tires.

What can I adjust to move the instant center slightly rearward and up?

Its a 4 link roadster with anti-roll and a-arm front end. The car has a mountain of front end travel which really helps on crappy tracks. I'm usually one of the fastest no box in the class but always looks for better.


33 Plymouth Roadster - 383 - 5.90 1/8th 9.58 1/4
68 Dart - 340
66 Belvedere - 400

Windy Hollow Garage - https://www.youtube.com/@windyhollowgarage
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420721
12/19/17 12:37 AM
12/19/17 12:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
See if you can tighten the front shocks... you
can try loosening the rears just a little
wave

Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420819
12/19/17 04:09 AM
12/19/17 04:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,375
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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Posts: 43,375
Bend,OR USA
What is the actual measured circumference of both tire sizes at race pressures in the centers?
Are both sets stiff sidewalls or not?
How about actual weight of the tires and wheels ready to race?
Lots of variables out there on race parts work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2420885
12/19/17 12:19 PM
12/19/17 12:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,413
Johnstown
69dart Offline OP
pro stock
69dart  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,413
Johnstown
I've tried 14x32 stiff sidewalls and regular sidewalls. The 10.5x33's were more consistent.

The rear shocks are usually full loose or 1 click if the track is great. Front shocks are around 5 or 6 clicks depending on the track. It has the strange shocks and probably needs a softer rear shock.


33 Plymouth Roadster - 383 - 5.90 1/8th 9.58 1/4
68 Dart - 340
66 Belvedere - 400

Windy Hollow Garage - https://www.youtube.com/@windyhollowgarage
Re: Tire height impact on 4 link? [Re: 69dart] #2420889
12/19/17 12:28 PM
12/19/17 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,403
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
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Posts: 19,403
Las Vegas
What is the MEASURED roll out of the two tires. Could be a significant difference in rollout simply changing the effective gearing and SLR...There is a very small difference in IC, height and distance between the tires Id guess. Likely small enough that unless you have something like a slider 4 link deal you would not be able to make it the same with the two tires. The 10.5W stuff is a pretty big tire might just be an SLR deal..


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"






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