Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2419909
12/17/17 04:45 PM
12/17/17 04:45 PM
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Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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What kind of cam, flat tappets or rollers?, and how much spring pressures and RPM? I always use lash caps on all my solid roller cam motors to help avoid damage to the valve tips Are your retainers and keepers designed for lash cap applications ? If not you will need them to match the lash caps What is the exact difference between the two kits, intake rockers, exhaust rockers, length or what?
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/17/17 04:47 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2419918
12/17/17 05:11 PM
12/17/17 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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fast68plymouth
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Changing the rockers or adding lash caps does not accomplish the same thing.
The āEā rockers, which is what the heads are designed to use, are shorter from the shaft c/l to the roller tip c/l.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906ās, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420226
12/18/17 09:06 AM
12/18/17 09:06 AM
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CSK
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Contact B3 racing engines, talk to Mike
Last edited by csk; 12/18/17 09:07 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420305
12/18/17 01:42 PM
12/18/17 01:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
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CompWedgeEngines
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Unfortunately, yes, you'll need different rockers as noted.You cant shim or adjust around your problem, like Dwayne mentioned, its the actual length of the rocker arm, well, actually the center to center distance of the wheel/shaft.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420336
12/18/17 02:29 PM
12/18/17 02:29 PM
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AndyF
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420351
12/18/17 03:05 PM
12/18/17 03:05 PM
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DusterKid
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Is there a listing somewhere that shows what the distance is from shaft c/l to the roller tip c/l for either of the 2 part numbers? I have a set of crane gold rockers and was curious if they would be the same as the ones needed to work properly on the TF heads or I would need new rockers.
Last edited by DusterKid; 12/18/17 03:07 PM.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420367
12/18/17 03:31 PM
12/18/17 03:31 PM
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markz528
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So stock replacement Harlan Sharp rockers don't work with the Trickflow 240 heads? Are the Trickflow 270 the same issue?
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: markz528]
#2420379
12/18/17 03:57 PM
12/18/17 03:57 PM
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CompWedgeEngines
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Will they " work" ? Well, they will bolt on, open and close the valves, and the engine will run etc., BUT, they wont be centered anywhere near where they should/ need to be over the valve stem.The standard S70015K rocker arm/kit is not the correct version for the Edelbrocks, Sidewinders and Trickflows.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: patosmith]
#2420422
12/18/17 05:13 PM
12/18/17 05:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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One thing to help put it all in perspective......
The "E" rockers didn't always exist........ And for years people installed the std rockers on their RPM heads, and the fitment of that scenario is slightly worse than with the TF heads. I'm sure there are countless motors running around just like that.
If I were building a bracket race motor with the TF heads, and already had the std rockers...... I'd run them.
For a street motor........ I guess it would depend on how much I felt I was really going to drive it.
I'm sure Mike at B3 could whip up some inserts to move the rockers back away from the valves enough to where the std rockers could be used instead of buying new ones.
The Crane gold and the E rockers are very close in length, as well as the Mancini/Harland's. The Comp Ultra-Pro rockers fit the TF heads okay as well.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906ās, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2420440
12/18/17 05:36 PM
12/18/17 05:36 PM
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DusterKid
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One thing to help put it all in perspective......
The "E" rockers didn't always exist........ And for years people installed the std rockers on their RPM heads, and the fitment of that scenario is slightly worse than with the TF heads. I'm sure there are countless motors running around just like that.
If I were building a bracket race motor with the TF heads, and already had the std rockers...... I'd run them.
For a street motor........ I guess it would depend on how much I felt I was really going to drive it.
I'm sure Mike at B3 could whip up some inserts to move the rockers back away from the valves enough to where the std rockers could be used instead of buying new ones.
The Crane gold and the E rockers are very close in length, as well as the Mancini/Harland's. The Comp Ultra-Pro rockers fit the TF heads okay as well. Thanks that's the info I was hoping to hear.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2420455
12/18/17 05:47 PM
12/18/17 05:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
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One thing to help put it all in perspective......
The "E" rockers didn't always exist........ And for years people installed the std rockers on their RPM heads, and the fitment of that scenario is slightly worse than with the TF heads. I'm sure there are countless motors running around just like that.
If I were building a bracket race motor with the TF heads, and already had the std rockers...... I'd run them.
For a street motor........ I guess it would depend on how much I felt I was really going to drive it.
I'm sure Mike at B3 could whip up some inserts to move the rockers back away from the valves enough to where the std rockers could be used instead of buying new ones.
The Crane gold and the E rockers are very close in length, as well as the Mancini/Harland's. The Comp Ultra-Pro rockers fit the TF heads okay as well. Forgot the B3 deal, that could work. I have never used it, but your looking to move about .070", I m sure Mike could tell you if that works with his set up. Dont know the cost of those either.The Crane Gold to me, was always " closer", more like the old Probes for fitment. They were thrown on everything, whether they fit or not, and kept running. I have a guy with a set of ProComp heads, and he is running T&Ds that fit like absolute crap in my opinion, and he runs lash caps. Horrible fit, but you know what, never had a problem, and never wore out a guide etc. For me, I'd rather have the right pieces, but thats me, and certainly with an expensive set of rocker arms, you dont want to throw that away.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#3097361
11/26/22 08:11 PM
11/26/22 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,183 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Bumping this one back from the horribly dead, lol
I am shopping for heads and have narrowed in on the Trick Flows. I have a set of old Harland Sharp rockers on the 906 heads currently on my motor (they have stamped hold downs + 6 point adjusters, assume they are the originals not designed for the E-heads) and figured I could reuse them, but from everything mentioned here they are too long so the roller isn't centered over the valve stem.
What's the biggest drawback of using them as is? Rapid valve guide wear if I drive it on the street? I average about 1000 miles a year.
Alternatively, are there any issues with a B3 relocation kit? I've heard a couple people mention the bolt holes in the rocker arm stands are shallow on the Trick Flows and studs are recommended, but I don't see a way to use studs with the B3 kits.
Thanks, Nick
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3097577
11/27/22 03:50 PM
11/27/22 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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GomangoCuda
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Alternatively, are there any issues with a B3 relocation kit? I've heard a couple people mention the bolt holes in the rocker arm stands are shallow on the Trick Flows and studs are recommended, but I don't see a way to use studs with the B3 kits.
Thanks, Nick Am I missing something here? Why would studs fit the B3 kit any different than bolts?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3097586
11/27/22 04:46 PM
11/27/22 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Blusmbl
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With the rocker shaft having to go up and back I didn't think you could use a stud that goes all the way through the rocker shaft and instead it had to be secured in 2 pieces. I've never seen a kit in person though so I don't know if you just drill another set of rocker shaft holes that aren't in line anymore.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3097689
11/28/22 06:33 AM
11/28/22 06:33 AM
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metallicareload
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On the TrickFlow 240 heads I used stock stamped steel rockers for at least 6,000 miles with no troubles. The next year I used bushed Crane ductile iron rockers for 1300 miles, only issue seemed to be some valve tip wear. I didn't really do much checking other than side and rocker to retainer clearance. When I put this engine back in I figured I ought to stop messing around and got Harland Sharps and started checking geometry and decided to use a shaft relocation kit from B3 racing engines. I used a carbide bit in a die grinder to elongate the holes with my Harland Sharp kit for the B3 relocation kit. This has allowed me to keep using studs for rocker hold downs. If I recall correctly, if using bolts as hold downs, the grinding might have been unnecessary or at least less extensive Mike @ B3 racing engines was very helpful, and I would check with him as I'm sure he may have a more elegant solution than what I did. Also depending on how far the rocker shaft is moved any grinding might be unnecessary.
440, 4-Speed, 3.54 1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: metallicareload]
#3097695
11/28/22 08:33 AM
11/28/22 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Blusmbl
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That makes total sense, thanks. If I can still run studs by elongating some of the shaft holes I'm less concerned.
Appreciate it!
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3098608
12/01/22 10:12 AM
12/01/22 10:12 AM
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Diplomat360
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Correct...talk to Mike @B3 first. He'll need you to do up some measurements and will calculate the dimensions needed to re-align the geometry. This could mean both horizontal and vertical movemement of the shaft.
Vertical is easy, but if you need to move it horizontally you'd need an offset shaft, basically the holes for either the studs or bolts is drilled off-center on the shaft. Depending on how much offset you need you could either handle it with a DIY approach, or you might get an already machined shaft.
I base this on my hands-on experience working through this on my W2 Long Valve stroker build.
Keep the following in mind: you may loose some valve lift...I did, about 0.030" on a 0.580" design lift at valve, but the final geometry you arrive at is supposed to make for a much more stable drivetrain.
I have no actual street time on this build yet, still in the heads porting stage, so no real "and this is how it worked out" results to report.
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Re: Harland Sharp Adjustable Rockers and Trick Flow 240 Heads
[Re: Diplomat360]
#3098868
12/02/22 09:13 AM
12/02/22 09:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Blusmbl
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Thanks- I think the shaft would have to move both up and back since the distance is too long. I only have the rockers, not the cylinder heads yet, so I'll have to start buying parts and then talk with Mike.
For Drag Week type stuff, I think the benefits of a stable valvetrain + potentially reduced guide wear outweigh the minor loss of lift.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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