Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: rdrnr33]
#2374144
09/20/17 09:29 PM
09/20/17 09:29 PM
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madscientist
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So should I cut back on the octane booster or just see how the RN9Ys look after some road time? I prefer the C series but if the 13/16 hex isn't a nightmare than I it's ok. Don't know your combo but I run a 12 Champion on 11:1 pump gas.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374197
09/20/17 11:02 PM
09/20/17 11:02 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
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Are projected tip plugs more prone to detonation, as compared to the equivalent non-projected tip plug?
All else being equal, Yes! OK, this is the first voice with a clear contrary position. Can you share your thoughts on this? Do you think the projected tip is hotter than a standard plug and can act like a hot spot (that was my original thought)? No matter what the heat range numbers say for a particular plug ( or comparing different brands of plugs), the farther the porcelain and tip is from the plug housing, the hotter it is going to run. That was sort of what I was thinking but then I realized I didn't know the details of the heat rating of a plug. Does it represent the temperature at the electrode? If so, then equivalent plugs would have the same temperature (although it would be located in a different spot in the chamber). If the rating represents the temperature at the porcelain at the body of the plug (where the actual control point is) then the tips would clearly be different temperatures. Any one know what portion of the plug the heat rating is based on?
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2374210
09/20/17 11:19 PM
09/20/17 11:19 PM
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Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
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I know of another guy in SO CA that worked in a knock lab also, he lead me to use the projected tip spark plugs in iron headed B and RB motors as well as all of the Mopar hemi motors for drag racing and street use Same information, different conclusions I had low compression(true 8.5 to 1) pump gas 350 Chevy boat motor that pinged, knocked, on regular pump gas with a Champion J12Y and quit knocking with a Champion J11Y I worked in service stations a long time ago before they became gas stations only and I have seen many stock motors that needed the spark plugs heat range changed for the driver Around town only grandma drive differently than there hot rodder grand kids did Colder is always safer than a tiny bit to hot when it comes to gasoline and different driving conditions and fuel used I agree colder is always safer when balanced against the negative of too cold. Can you explain more on the "same information, different conclusions"? Are you indicated that your source also felt projected tip were more prone to detonation but had some other benefit that outweighed it? Or that the standard plug was more prone? I guess it comes down to a balance of many factors, like most things. I am still not sure what type of plug to get, but at least they are not too expensive in the grand scheme!
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2374282
09/21/17 12:45 AM
09/21/17 12:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Crizila
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Juat sayin Hi Thumper. To Cab; I'm not sayin don't run extended core plugs. Just sayin they will run hotter, all else being equal. Ran them in my wedge motors all the time back in the day. They helped to solve a lot of problems such as poor intake runner and combustion chamber design, poor fuel distribution, weak ignitions, etc. A lot of them lived due to high octane leaded fuel. If you can run them and don't end up with the attached pic, by all means, run them. BTY, the pic is the result of running a way wrong heat range plug - and running a little lean.
Last edited by Crizila; 09/21/17 12:45 AM.
Fastest 300
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374288
09/21/17 12:50 AM
09/21/17 12:50 AM
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Crizila
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Same piston exposed to detonation. BTW, never heard it until the damage was done.
Fastest 300
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374324
09/21/17 01:44 AM
09/21/17 01:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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You had the same experience that a lot of racers and hot rodders have, they don't hear it until the motor quits or starts smoking I learned to look at the plugs frequently until I knew the tune up was safe On my stock 415 HP M.W. on the old 100+ octane high lead pump fuel in 1971 to 1973, it liked the stock J11Y, not the J10y or the hotter J12Y spark plugs. I could hear the difference in idling right away, I could see the differences in on the plugs with one full WOT blast down the street As far as heat on the plug tip the center porclyn determines what the tip temperature will be, retracted or projected More porclyn around the center electrode less heat transfer
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2374447
09/21/17 12:11 PM
09/21/17 12:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Crizila
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You had the same experience that a lot of racers and hot rodders have, they don't hear it until the motor quits or starts smoking I learned to look at the plugs frequently until I knew the tune up was safe On my stock 415 HP M.W. on the old 100+ octane high lead pump fuel in 1971 to 1973, it liked the stock J11Y, not the J10y or the hotter J12Y spark plugs. I could hear the difference in idling right away, I could see the differences in on the plugs with one full WOT blast down the street As far as heat on the plug tip the center porclyn determines what the tip temperature will be, retracted or projected More porclyn around the center electrode less heat transfer Plug electrode heat build up transfers through the porcelain to the plug main body. The farther it is from the main body, the less heat transfer there will be and the hotter the electrode will run. What I was always taught. By 73 high lead content fuel was being phased out as it was killimg convertors - and us of course. Attached is a comparison of 3 plugs that I have run in the past in my SB. Right 2 are NGK's. Left is a Champ. Right plug is by far the coldest (-9) which I run in my blower motor. Left 2 I have run in NA motors and they would not survive in my blower motor. All worked well in the proper environment.
Fastest 300
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374457
09/21/17 12:37 PM
09/21/17 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Thumperdart
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Same piston exposed to detonation. BTW, never heard it until the damage was done. Hi back at ya and are these your blower pistons.......
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2374553
09/21/17 02:51 PM
09/21/17 02:51 PM
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Crizila
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Not apples to apples in a power adder situation and I've been using projected tips forever w/zreo issues as long as the carb/timing are where they need to be............. True. Can't remember for sure, but with the boost I was running the static CR figured out to be around 17 -18:1. Projected tip plugs don't live there.
Fastest 300
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374589
09/21/17 04:14 PM
09/21/17 04:14 PM
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Thumperdart
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Not apples to apples in a power adder situation and I've been using projected tips forever w/zreo issues as long as the carb/timing are where they need to be............. True. Can't remember for sure, but with the boost I was running the static CR figured out to be around 17 -18:1. Projected tip plugs don't live there. Yep, I did a pair of carbs for a blown 588 BB Chevy in a 25" Eliminator boat and they need the non projected plugs and a bit colder accordingly...........fires right up w/the bump of the key and he lifted at 115 mph at only 5200 rpm stating "It's too fing fast" but would fall on it's face prior...........Power adder stuff is in it's own tuning world imo............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: davenc]
#2374730
09/21/17 09:03 PM
09/21/17 09:03 PM
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crabman173
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crabman173
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Smokey Yunick invented the projected tip plug--it has been std equip for 40-50 years now?? They are supposed to idle cleaner and better I have been a hot rod nut and engine guy all my life --I have never had a better plug or better plug company than NGK--quality is unsurpassed--tech line answers phone on first rings and if you give correct info--all ya need is correct compression ratio--fuel type--and the proper thread engagement stuff like always They will put you ON THE MONEY first time if you give correct info Then you order off Ebay with free shipping and no sales tax and get the best for less--I tell this tale again and again but folks fight it and always have other opinions--- Yes Autolite race plugs and Champion race series are good plugs but tech is almost non-existent and price is just stupid compared to NGK on Egay Just try call NGK tech which you can Google These are the best quality plugs available Japanese made --superior quality--Amazing tech support--and best price of all the quality units available Quit fighting City Hall and try em will ya???
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Crizila]
#2374794
09/21/17 11:25 PM
09/21/17 11:25 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
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Plug electrode heat build up transfers through the porcelain to the plug main body. The farther it is from the main body, the less heat transfer there will be and the hotter the electrode will run. What I was always taught. I have not been sure what part of plug is used for the heat rating. Found this link this evening: https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-basicsThe description that NGK provides indicates to me that the heat rating does reflect the tip/electrode end of the plug. That should mean that a projected and non-projected tip plug of the same heat rating would have approximately the same temperature at the electrode. That temperature point is placed in a different location in the combustion chamber though.
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: ]
#2375244
09/22/17 10:52 PM
09/22/17 10:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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Smokey Yunick invented the projected tip plug--it has been std equip for 40-50 years now?? They are supposed to idle cleaner and better I have been a hot rod nut and engine guy all my life --I have never had a better plug or better plug company than NGK--quality is unsurpassed--tech line answers phone on first rings and if you give correct info--all ya need is correct compression ratio--fuel type--and the proper thread engagement stuff like always They will put you ON THE MONEY first time if you give correct info Then you order off Ebay with free shipping and no sales tax and get the best for less--I tell this tale again and again but folks fight it and always have other opinions--- Yes Autolite race plugs and Champion race series are good plugs but tech is almost non-existent and price is just stupid compared to NGK on Egay Just try call NGK tech which you can Google These are the best quality plugs available Japanese made --superior quality--Amazing tech support--and best price of all the quality units available Quit fighting City Hall and try em will ya??? Totally agree on the NGK thing
Fastest 300
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Re: Projected tip plugs more prone to detonation?
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2375426
09/23/17 12:39 PM
09/23/17 12:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Crizila
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I'd like to see some ACTUAL results from using different brands of the same heat range plugs. I would guess that there wouldn't be much difference to measure. I would have to say yes to the original question. At some point sharp edges and projectile tips will retain more heat in the combustion chamber. Common sense. - as long as you don't read anything else in to the question - which is NOT SOP for this site - which is ok.
Fastest 300
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