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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2349691
08/06/17 08:28 PM
08/06/17 08:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Let me restate, cause some have lost track of what I have. It had a hyd spec cam, and hyd roller lifters. It wasn't making the power we thought it should, so after talking to Ray Barton in which he said a hyd roller in a Hemi will probably float at around 5500, I decided to take the hyd lifters out, and put solid rollers in, and keep the same cam due to money issue. It has roller tip rockers. Then lash then at .002 cold. If you can set them at .002 and get it to start...all the better. I'm not a fan of solid rollers on a HRT lobe when using an aluminum block. It's too hard to keep the lash under .004-.005 running. Much more than that and the lifter will hate it.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2349790
08/06/17 11:22 PM
08/06/17 11:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581
N/E, Michigan
RATTRAP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581
N/E, Michigan
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I have a 528 Hemi, with aluminum block, and heads, and intake, with a solid roller cam, and roller rockers, and this is a street car, what would you all run on valve clearance?
Thanks Whats on the cam-card?
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2349812
08/06/17 11:48 PM
08/06/17 11:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,263
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,263
Bend,OR USA
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Preload? He's running solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam. (Why is a mystery)
I didn't see that 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2349987
08/07/17 11:51 AM
08/07/17 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,673
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,673
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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What do you think about 8 on the intakes, and 10 on the exhaust when cold? I can't really ck it hot cause by the time I get the booster off to check, it would have changed. Do it the proper way and check it hot just like everybody else does. If the brake booster is causing you a problem take it off before you warm it up. When you are done leave the valve covers off and when the motor is stone cold you can check the lash and then you will have a cold number to use on your engine.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2350019
08/07/17 01:04 PM
08/07/17 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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What block is it? I have KB Indy and a World block and all three are a bit different in growth rate. Mine will grow from .014-.018" from cold to hot. On the Cuda we went to a tight lash deal and had .002 cold, cold meaning 60-65. When we raced and it will really cold out I would have to leave the car in the trailer with a small heater or it would not start. Had a division race in Salt Lake one year where it spent a lot of time in the trailer. I missed a first time shot because it was too cold to start, but it was too cold(46) to race too IMO so would have passed on it anyway.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2350110
08/07/17 03:19 PM
08/07/17 03:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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It's one of those HP performance blocks. It's not a race engine, so I was needing an all round number on lash. Like I said, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are using solid roller lifters on a hydraulic lobe. If that is true, they don't like lash like a regular solid lobe. If what I'm saying is correct, if you can cold lash it .001 and get it to start you'll be better off. Put a bunch of lash in it and it won't live very long.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: madscientist]
#2350167
08/07/17 04:44 PM
08/07/17 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,226
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,226
Benton, IL.
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It's one of those HP performance blocks. It's not a race engine, so I was needing an all round number on lash. Like I said, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are using solid roller lifters on a hydraulic lobe. If that is true, they don't like lash like a regular solid lobe. If what I'm saying is correct, if you can cold lash it .001 and get it to start you'll be better off. Put a bunch of lash in it and it won't live very long. Not to dispute that opinion, but if he sets the lash that tight, it probably won't start anytime the temps are much cooler outside than the day he sets his valves. So, he would need to re-adjust his valves at least every season. Probably more. That tight a lash might be fine on a race car, but the OP has a street car with a brake booster. He will probably need to find a happy medium between longevity and frequent maintenance.
Master, again and still
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2350169
08/07/17 04:46 PM
08/07/17 04:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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It's one of those HP performance blocks. It's not a race engine, so I was needing an all round number on lash. Like I said, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are using solid roller lifters on a hydraulic lobe. If that is true, they don't like lash like a regular solid lobe. If what I'm saying is correct, if you can cold lash it .001 and get it to start you'll be better off. Put a bunch of lash in it and it won't live very long. Not to dispute that opinion, but if he sets the lash that tight, it probably won't start anytime the temps are much cooler outside than the day he sets his valves. So, he would need to re-adjust his valves at least every season. Probably more. That tight a lash might be fine on a race car, but the OP has a street car with a brake booster. He will probably need to find a happy medium between longevity and frequent maintenance. I understand and you are correct. That is the problem of using solid lifters on the hydraulic roller lobe. They don't have much (if any) lash ramp. If the clearance gets very wide, it will beat itself to death.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: madscientist]
#2350221
08/07/17 06:05 PM
08/07/17 06:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,457
Morristown Tn.
71birdJ68
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,457
Morristown Tn.
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Yes, it is hyd lobes with solid lifters. The lifter bores are bushed, and the lifters are Isky solid without needles. On the setting it hot deal, I know I should, but it is a street car with a high dollar paint job, so I don't want to try and clean up after it throws oil every where with the valve covers off.
Last edited by 71birdJ68; 08/07/17 06:05 PM.
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2350615
08/08/17 11:47 AM
08/08/17 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,226
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,226
Benton, IL.
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I think you are in a pay me now or pay me later situation here. If you go ahead and put solid lifters on hydraulic lobes, you will most certainly need to monitor the lash more frequently than otherwise. Which sounds like something you would rather not do. And should you loose a lobe or lifter, then you're out an engine.
The other route would be to change cams.
More work now, or more work along the way.
I personally have no experience with solid rollers on a hydraulic grind cam. But I think it is safe to say that everyone that has weighed in on this with experience has not been encouraging. Seems trying to run an extremely tight lash on an aluminum block/head combo could be a maintenance nightmare.
Let us know what you decide.
Master, again and still
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2350619
08/08/17 11:52 AM
08/08/17 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I think you are in a pay me now or pay me later situation here. If you go ahead and put solid lifters on hydraulic lobes, you will most certainly need to monitor the lash more frequently than otherwise. Which sounds like something you would rather not do. And should you loose a lobe or lifter, then you're out an engine.
The other route would be to change cams.
More work now, or more work along the way.
I personally have no experience with solid rollers on a hydraulic grind cam. But I think it is safe to say that everyone that has weighed in on this with experience has not been encouraging. Seems trying to run an extremely tight lash on an aluminum block/head combo could be a maintenance nightmare.
Let us know what you decide.
 I'd bite the bullet and change the cam now. The lash is gonna be finicky as he11 w/ the growth rate of an all aluminum hemi and having to keep the lash real tight so the valvetrain doesn't destroy itself. You just spent a LOT of money on some realy nice lifters...now you're gonna beat the snot out of them on a hyd. cam. The cam itself is just about the cheapest part of a hemi's valvetrain. FWIW...My KB block/MP head hemi grows about .013" when it gets hot. I lash them cold at .010" so I have .023" hot.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2350643
08/08/17 12:28 PM
08/08/17 12:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,457
Morristown Tn.
71birdJ68
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,457
Morristown Tn.
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Well, I just talked to Crower about all of this, and he said he has done this same thing before, and that I will be fine. Here is what he said about lash. Hot it should .022/.024, and to reduce that by around .008 for a cold setting. So, according to him it should be around .014 cold. So, I guess this will start another round of arguments. Ha Really, by this point I'm ready to give up. This engine is a ticking bomb to start with, and my everyday car just blew an engine, and I'm down to a 75 /6 for transportation , soooo, there will not be a completely new cam installed in this motor. I'll just have to live with it. I think I'll do 8 on the intakes, and 10 on the exhaust cold. Thanks, everybody
Last edited by 71birdJ68; 08/08/17 12:38 PM.
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Re: Valve Lash
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2350714
08/08/17 02:06 PM
08/08/17 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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.008 for an aluminum block and head is not much...But I have not build anything with an HP block yet. That's just way less my three other aluminum engines grow.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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