Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
#2343514
07/26/17 05:59 AM
07/26/17 05:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Anyone here ever completely gone custom on wiring their car? I dont mean track/trailer only race cars, but actually street-driven cars. NO stock OEM wiring at all, just an aftermarket kit (Painless? i dont even know who's making good ones anymore).
Seems to me a great way to save a lot ov weight, simplify a car, get rid ov ALL those 45 year old gremlins from cracked/corroded/otherwise compromised wiring, and have something easy to work with, modify and diagnose.
Is it cheap?
Will it work on a daily driven car?
Is it difficult to make work with the stock/OEM lights/taillights?
This would be on a 68-70 musclecar, but one absolutely stripped ov options. Maybe a heater, wipers, would have an aftermarket speedo, tach, gas gauge, other gauges, etc.
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2343530
07/26/17 08:58 AM
07/26/17 08:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246 Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
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After much research, I purchased this kit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aww-510289I have yet to install but it is plug and play with all the existing bulbs/switches and has a modern ATO fuse panel. It also eliminates the factory ammeter and has provisions for electronic ignition. I replaced most of the factory wiring on my 1972 Cuda over the 37 years that I've owned the car but most of the replacement wires need to be replaced again. I decided to bite the bullet and pretty much update to 1990's technology. I looked at other "grid" type wiring systems but it was too much $$ for my limited goals.
1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2343542
07/26/17 09:33 AM
07/26/17 09:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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As a business I have done it a few ways. I have installed customer supplied kits like that and it would take about 30-40 labor hrs to do that you are charging a customer. When I get harness that where made for that car the parts cost more but it was just plug and play and only took 4 hrs you charged out. Now if you are not doing stock componants like one wire alt,msd then stock type harness is good but if you are changing things I just make my own harness to fit the components.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2343595
07/26/17 11:44 AM
07/26/17 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552 Michigan
Kiddart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,552
Michigan
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I bought a Kit from jegs, 20 circuit. went in easy needed help from the board on ignition but most of it went in ok. I have after market gauges as well. Have since bought a hot wire kit at mancinis for my sons Belvedere, will be tackling that one over the winter.
Thank you Kiddart
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2343963
07/26/17 10:45 PM
07/26/17 10:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570
Fulton County, PA
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On anything custom or race related, I do everything from scratch using components and design of my choosing.
On a street car or OEM/restoration deal, a reproduction harness will have the odd, proprietary, hard to find terminals and connectors for stock components. That can save a lot of aggravation trying to make a nice job of it. Depends on how much OE stuff is retained; ignition switch, turn signal and other switches, heater, lighting, etc.
Based on what you said you are doing, I might recycle the hard components from an OE harness for the original stuff with new terminals and wiring and do a hybrid system. Planning is needed for a good result.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2344077
07/27/17 04:02 AM
07/27/17 04:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Hmmm... encouraging. Lots ov options, and doesn't sound terribly difficult. I'm not looking for 'pretty', just 'tidy'. The car itself is not now, nor will it ever be pretty, but i do want it to be reliable.
Lets assume i want a heater/front defogger (will probably go smaller aftermarket), wipers, stock lights, aftermarket tach/speedo/gauges (in a custom dash), all the basic stuff in the column (turn signals, horn, key ignition), electronic ignition and basic engine wiring (Toyota alt, mini starter), and provision to install a stereo down the road. Thats it. Nothing fancy.
Basically... what you'd find in a basic 32 Ford build.
Whats a ballpark for total cost to do this? The wiring/kit, not the actual items (like tach, etc.).
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2344377
07/27/17 04:07 PM
07/27/17 04:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570
Fulton County, PA
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Let's substitute "pretty" for "orderly" which will make it easier to trace or repair any issues, keep wires from getting pinched or damaged by being in the wrong place and keep wire lengths to a minimum. Avoid the "bowl of spaghetti" look.
A stock heater will be simpler to use. Only reason I would go aftermarket would be to get A/C.
A reproduction or good donor dash harness will make the dash/factory switches and components part of it easier and nicer. Engine wiring on a non-EFI is simple. Fans, fuel pumps, MSDs, and anything else that it didn't come from thee factory with will have to be considered so you don't end up with a hacked up mess.
Cost? Depends. Mostly time and material, quality of parts used, detailing. Push an empty car in, start it up with everything done and drive it out? $3-5K, depending on if the guy does it for a living or just for beer money.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2344646
07/28/17 01:32 AM
07/28/17 01:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,570
Fulton County, PA
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Like I said earlier, don't use kits so I don't know what a $400 kit comes with. Relays, solenoids, fuse panels, wire, quality connectors and terminals like Weatherpack or Deutsch, whatever is needed to connect OE components, loom, shrink, battery cable, good switches or a panel like Autorod's, miscellaneous hardware, etc, etc. And time to fab mounts and put it all together.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2344749
07/28/17 11:19 AM
07/28/17 11:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
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what i have found over the years, is there are quality differences that range all over the place in both high dollar kits and low dollar, generic kits. the generic kits almost always are GM based, with adapter[s] plugs and different schematics for ford and mopar applications. i have seen "hot rod" kits that offer minimal circuits that are inexpensive, but have good quality wire and components. at the same time, i have seen high dollar, [supposedly] direct fit kits that use cheap, thick wire insulation, and undersize [for the intended use] wire. the termination terminals, fuse box, relays, and fuses are other components that can vary widely in kits of all price ranges. the ron francis kits, although pricy, are pretty decent, but i have seen, and used, "no name", cheapo kits that were as good or better, than the francis kits. doing a "one wire at a time" installation can sometimes get very expensive, buying the individual components necessary for the job. and don't forget the tools necessary to accomplish a quality job. meters [i use a fluke, but while expensive, not really necessary, as there are others out there that will accomplish the objective], test lights, jumpers, picks and terminal tools of various sizes, wire strippers, and above all, a QUALITY crimping tool can not be emphasized enough ! doing ones homework and inspecting several kits in person [if possible], will go a long way before purchase, and ensure a quality job when finished. wiring is not a particularly hard job, but it does require thought, discipline, and workmanship to insure correct and problem free operation. just my experiance over the years with "spaghetti". your results may vary.........
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2344798
07/28/17 12:48 PM
07/28/17 12:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317 Ohio
jlatessa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
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I've used two Painless kits and what moparx says is true about them being somewhat generic. That being said, the quality and suitability for our use is top-notch.
Wires are numbered, color coded like the FSM and "to and from" info marked every foot or so.
Wire gauges are appropriately sized for intended use and instructions are clear, although a few comparisons with your FSM are required. When help is needed, their techs are great.
Although some want everything terminated for them, I like making sure of my own connections and being able to solder every one I think necessary.
Joe
Last edited by jlatessa; 07/28/17 12:51 PM.
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Re: Aftermarket (complete) wiring.
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2345677
07/30/17 12:45 PM
07/30/17 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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I bought a Rebel-Wire universal kit for my Duster, Moparts board member JonGottaDemonDad sells the kits.
It worked great for me, my car is just a hot rod so the wiring is set up very basic but the wires are all labeled every few inches and that makes the whole job easier. I was able to figure out which wires went to my steering column wires and the rest was pretty easy even though I've never wired a car.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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