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Engine Assembly #2339132
07/18/17 03:18 PM
07/18/17 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Here and now
J
jeebis44 Offline OP
super stock
jeebis44  Offline OP
super stock
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Here and now
What types of RTV / sealants go where when assembling a new engine? Permatex Black for intake, valve covers, oil pan & timing cover, Blue for water pump is what I was thinking?

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: jeebis44] #2339186
07/18/17 04:30 PM
07/18/17 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 512
Niwot, CO Formerly denn...
dynorad Offline
mopar
dynorad  Offline
mopar

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Niwot, CO Formerly denn...
I like "Right-Stuff". However it may not be the best choice for a part you plan to remove periodically.

Last edited by dynorad; 07/18/17 04:30 PM.
Re: Engine Assembly [Re: jeebis44] #2339190
07/18/17 04:33 PM
07/18/17 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,139
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner Offline
master
RoadRunner  Offline
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Posts: 5,139
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
For intake or anything that can be touched by fuel, I use Hylomar Universal Blue. Gaskacinch on cork rubber gaskets or paper gaskets for timing cover, oil pan, etc.


68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
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Re: Engine Assembly [Re: RoadRunner] #2339202
07/18/17 04:55 PM
07/18/17 04:55 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Silicone should be NOWHERE on a new engine, except maybe the header flange trick mentioned from time to time.

If you have bought quality gaskets they go on dry. Ask the gasket manufacturers and they'll confirm. Roadhazard on this board IS Superformance Gaskets. Ask him.

I use silicone when I am too cheap or lazy to buy a valve cover gasket, laying a decent bead and letting it tack up, then setting it on the head until the silicone sets up, then torqueing.
Gasket cement I use occasionally to glue a gasket to a surface where I don't want it to fall off or move during assembly.

The Right Stuff is what the factories use to replace gaskets. For example my '93 Suburban didn't have a differential cover gasket. If you ask for the part at a dealership the part number will be attached to a plastic bag holding a tube of something. It is not a gasket "dressing" which is an antique term. I use it on differential covers, valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, in place of gaskets. It sets up almost instantly when the flanges are drawn together. I have installed a part, put away the wrenches and driven away without a single leak. Righteous. Be prepared to cut the material with a knife of some sort to disassemble. It will not tolerate gasoline, it foams.

R.

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: dogdays] #2339552
07/19/17 09:12 AM
07/19/17 09:12 AM
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Posts: 14,889
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Supercuda Offline
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Originally Posted By dogdays
Silicone should be NOWHERE on a new engine, except maybe the header flange trick mentioned from time to time.

If you have bought quality gaskets they go on dry. Ask the gasket manufacturers and they'll confirm. Roadhazard on this board IS Superformance Gaskets. Ask him.


I agree with one exception, the embossed steel head and intake gaskets mopar has used over the years and those do not use RTV.

But any fiber, composite, or MLS gasket, yeah it goes dry.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Engine Assembly [Re: Supercuda] #2339631
07/19/17 11:57 AM
07/19/17 11:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,699
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
The Doctor is in.

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Posts: 20,699
Eagle, Idaho
Permatex makes a water pump specific sealer that works nice. I also like their Form-a-Gasket sealers for freeze plugs, etc.

I don't use the parts store blue or black rtv silicone. If I need to use a silicone for anything I use clear GE Silicone I from Home Depot. It's pretty strong stuff.

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: jeebis44] #2339714
07/19/17 02:03 PM
07/19/17 02:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Sxrxrnr Offline
pro stock
Sxrxrnr  Offline
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Northern Calyfornua
You can double oil pan remove and replace time if silicone is used with gasket on oil pan. With proper torque(15 pounds often called for)using a decent gasket should not leak without it. Cheap flimsy flanges inherent to some oil pans causing dimpling should be addressed by using another brand of oil pan or using a girdle between bolt heads and oil pan.

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: Sxrxrnr] #2339855
07/19/17 05:27 PM
07/19/17 05:27 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Chrysler used those embossed steel gaskets everywhere they could. They put them in dry. I have to believe that's how they were intended to be used. They worked all right as long as the mating surfaces were both planar.

Back in the day everyone had their own idea on how to make'em better. Two competing ideas were two coats of aluminum spray paint and put them in wet, or spray with Copper Coat. It feels intuitive that would be better, right? But looking at it as adding another slippery layer between the surfaces sheds a different light on the subject. Maybe the factory really did employ engineers and the coatings on the steel gaskets were just the right thickness.

Anyway, those methods didn't cause failures often.

Oil pan flanges often have the bolt holes deformed inward because of overtightening. I carefully return them to original and they seem to torque up all right.

R.

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: dogdays] #2339873
07/19/17 05:57 PM
07/19/17 05:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Sxrxrnr Offline
pro stock
Sxrxrnr  Offline
pro stock
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Northern Calyfornua
Originally Posted By dogdays
Chrysler used those embossed steel gaskets everywhere they could. They put them in dry. I have to believe that's how they were intended to be used. They worked all right as long as the mating surfaces were both planar.

Back in the day everyone had their own idea on how to make'em better. Two competing ideas were two coats of aluminum spray paint and put them in wet, or spray with Copper Coat. It feels intuitive that would be better, right? But looking at it as adding another slippery layer between the surfaces sheds a different light on the subject. Maybe the factory really did employ engineers and the coatings on the steel gaskets were just the right thickness.

Anyway, those methods didn't cause failures often.

Oil pan flanges often have the bolt holes deformed inward because of overtightening. I carefully return them to original and they seem to torque up all right.

R.


It is either Mancini or Hughes that now offers such a kit. 15'pounds torque, no dimpling, no silicone, no leaking.

IMG_0241.JPGIMG_0243.JPG
Re: Engine Assembly [Re: dogdays] #2339880
07/19/17 06:13 PM
07/19/17 06:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Supercuda  Offline
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Posts: 14,889
up yours
Originally Posted By dogdays
Chrysler used those embossed steel gaskets everywhere they could. They put them in dry.


Straight from the 1964 Chrysler FSM on cylinder head installation

"Coat the new gaskets with a suitable sealer,
MoPar Number 1122893. Install the gaskets and cylinder
heads."

Straight out of the 1973 Dodge FSM, B/RB section, on cylinder head installation.

'Coat new gaskets lightly with a suitable sealer,
Chrysler Number 1057794 or equivalent. Install
gaskets and cylinder heads'

I picked the oldest and the newest relevant FSM's I had on hand.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Engine Assembly [Re: jeebis44] #2340250
07/20/17 12:02 PM
07/20/17 12:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
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Manitoba, Canada
I use permatex ultra black. However I use it sparingly. The valley pan gets a blob of silicone on the corners as well as the front and rear valley flanges. Even that is probably unnecessary but I do it. Nothing around the ports. The intake manifold goes on dry. Intake manifold bolts get permatex thread sealer. Head gaskets go on dry unless they are the steel shim gaskets, then they get a coat of permatex copper gasket spray. Probably not necessary either but I do it. I use the copper gasket spray on all the other gaskets. Again, it's probably not really necessary but it makes me feel good. Rear main oil seal cap gets a little on the cap flanges. I do use the silicone on the oil pan. If you use a windage tray, I have had trouble with them leaking when sandwiching the pan between cork gaskets. I silicone the tray to the block then I silicone the pan on. Silicone with cork oil pan gaskets just makes them move around and squish out. I have had trouble with leaking valve cover gaskets especially with stock, deformed valve cover flanges. I silicone the gasket to the valve cover but I do not silicone the gasket to the head.

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2340318
07/20/17 01:35 PM
07/20/17 01:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,529
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

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north of coder
if i make gaskets when none are available, or need one when the parts store is closed, i have some quality .045 cardboard on stock. i cut the gasket shape out with razor blades or scissors, then punch the holes with a hand held squeeze punch or leather punches of the appropriate size. the gasket is then used dry or a VERY, VERY thin coating of hi-temp RTV applied evenly between my fingers on both surfaces of the gasket, depending on application. been doing that for years with great success.
beer

Re: Engine Assembly [Re: moparx] #2340580
07/20/17 10:08 PM
07/20/17 10:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 870
Keizer, Oregon U.S.A.
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elmor353 Offline
super stock
elmor353  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 870
Keizer, Oregon U.S.A.
I have never used any sealer of any kind on the steel embossed head gaskets. Never had a problem with any of them. I've done at least 75 big blocks for myself, friends and family, all of them ran fine.







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