car will only start when releasing key to run position? - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Moparts Question and Answer car will only start when releasing key to run position?

Print Thread

Page 2 of 3

1

2

3

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334441 07/10/17 12:23 AM 07/10/17 12:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa. Mattax top fuel
Mattax top fuel Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.	I think what you've done is OK. That is drawing on battery power from the heavy starter wire and using the white for a trigger even with a magnetic pickup distributer. I connected the heavy power wire to the starter relay. Thinking about it now, it probably should get a fuse..

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: Supercuda] #2334470 07/10/17 01:25 AM 07/10/17 01:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	Originally Posted By Supercuda Originally Posted By pyp1000 actually, I had 11 volts in both crank and run on both sides of the ballast. I thought that was weird. Having the same voltage on both sides of the ballast during start is normal. Actually not. While cranking the run circuit power should decay the same ammount than the coil source in run. That's why the brake light ( and oil if equipped ) on cluster dimms out while cranking, they are on Run circuit Last edited by NachoRT74; 07/10/17 01:31 AM. With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #2334471 07/10/17 01:28 AM 07/10/17 01:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	Originally Posted By 72 RR DUDE Wire's are back words on the ballast resister. There is no a way to conect backwards a resistor With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334510 07/10/17 02:47 AM 07/10/17 02:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,019 Washington/Las Vegas 1971 Gran Coupe super stock
1971 Gran Coupe super stock Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,019 Washington/Las Vegas	I see you have changed the ignition switch, but your symptoms sure point to a bad switch. If you have another one around, disconnect the new one under the dash and just connect it under the dash, and then give it a try. If nothing else, you will eliminate the ignition cable/switch. I had the same thing years ago and it turned out to be the ig. switch. Another way to check is to slowly turn the key slowly until it just begins to turn over and see if it starts with the key in the start position. Is what happens, the key turns the connections past the point where the contacts touch, thus no juice for the coil, but when the key is allowed to t=return to the normal run spot the contacts line up sending current to the coil.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: 1971 Gran Coupe] #2334548 07/10/17 08:51 AM 07/10/17 08:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 668 Hamburg, Pa. 7 72 RR DUDE mopar
72 RR DUDE mopar 7 Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 668 Hamburg, Pa.	I restored a 72 RR that did the same thing and I did have the wires back words they only push on.An old time Mopar mechanic told me what was wrong. That,s how I know!Maybe you can,t on his year car but you could mix them in 72 Last edited by 72 RR DUDE; 07/10/17 08:52 AM.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334559 07/10/17 09:45 AM 07/10/17 09:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH markz528 master
markz528 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH	Again, you are not supposed to run a ballast resistor with the MSD. If you have been getting away with it, so be it, but I can tell you my car would barely run when I had the ballast resistor in the circuit with the 6AL2. First thing the MSD tech asked me was did I remove the resistor! Sounds like you are not getting power on the small red wire during cranking. As I stated before, you need to temporarily jump that wire to the battery and see if that solves the problem. I suspect that you have the small red wire connected to the ballast resistor wiring which (again) is not getting power while cranking due to a bad bulkhead. There is theoretically nothing wrong with doing it that way and long as you provide power during cranking and run. The small red wire requires full battery power to run the box. 67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334565 07/10/17 10:14 AM 07/10/17 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH markz528 master
markz528 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH	The bulkhead connector in question is wire J3 connector pin D. J3 is a #14 AWG brown wire and should be the top left corner (top row of connectors all the way to the left). You can stick a voltage probe in that connector while cranking and see if you have full battery voltage. You can also remove the plastic connector and inspect the connections. Or you can do what I suggested up and jumper that wire for testing............ 67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: markz528] #2334569 07/10/17 10:32 AM 07/10/17 10:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	Originally Posted By markz528 Again, you are not supposed to run a ballast resistor with the MSD. If you have been getting away with it, so be it, but I can tell you my car would barely run when I had the ballast resistor in the circuit with the 6AL2. First thing the MSD tech asked me was did I remove the resistor! Sounds like you are not getting power on the small red wire during cranking. As I stated before, you need to temporarily jump that wire to the battery and see if that solves the problem. I suspect that you have the small red wire connected to the ballast resistor wiring which (again) is not getting power while cranking due to a bad bulkhead. There is theoretically nothing wrong with doing it that way and long as you provide power during cranking and run. The small red wire requires full battery power to run the box. False, the small red wire is just a remote on signal, and works perfectly with the ballast source originally made for the stock coil wiring setup. Its on owner choose keep it or not. Old MSD instructions sheets said the need to remove and splice wires together ( or whichever method you preffer to use to bypass ballast ), but laters instruction sheets were updated and specifically says the coil + lead wire can be used for that signal even with the balast still on firewall. Where the ballast needs to be removed is on RTR distributors, because they don't have the power source separated like the modules get With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334573 07/10/17 10:43 AM 07/10/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa. Mattax top fuel
Mattax top fuel Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.	What Nacho wrote. On a 6A 6C or 6T the small red wire draws a 1/4 amp at 12 volts. It just needs enough power to keep the transistorized relay on. It will work below 12 volts, although there is limit - it won't work at 5 volts. Obviously it will work above 12 volt and draw even less current. Last edited by Mattax; 07/10/17 11:06 AM. Reason: revised to make sense as Nacho was faster to the draw.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: NachoRT74] #2334579 07/10/17 10:55 AM 07/10/17 10:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH markz528 master
markz528 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,287 Morrow, OH	Originally Posted By NachoRT74 False, the small red wire is just a remote on signal, and works perfectly with the ballast source originally made for the stock coil wiring setup. Its on owner choose keep it or not. Old MSD instructions sheets said the need to remove and splice wires together ( or whichever method you preffer to use to bypass ballast ), but laters instruction sheets were updated and specifically says the coil + lead wire can be used for that signal even with the balast still on firewall. Where the ballast needs to be removed is on RTR distributors, because they don't have the power source separated like the modules get [/quote] I know exactly what the small red wire does. Do what you want................. I'm done with my input. 67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: markz528] #2334588 07/10/17 11:08 AM 07/10/17 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	My friend, I'm not trying to be a smartass, just posting what diagrams say, and it says straight from coil just like it is. Using mag dist Last edited by NachoRT74; 07/10/17 11:19 AM. With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: markz528] #2334590 07/10/17 11:11 AM 07/10/17 11:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa. Mattax top fuel
Mattax top fuel Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.	Here's a page from the people who orignally made and sold 'em. This is from the Installation Instructions pertaining to the following: 6200 MSD 6A 6246 MSD 6A For odd fire v-6 6400 MSD 6T 6446 MSD 6T For odd fire v-6 6420 MSD 6AL p4 Installation Instructions MSD 6 Series Multiple Spark Discharge Ignition Form 1498, revised 09/92

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334597 07/10/17 11:20 AM 07/10/17 11:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	Thanks Mattax Is just abouth some myths needing to be busted With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: NachoRT74] #2334607 07/10/17 11:29 AM 07/10/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Originally Posted By NachoRT74 Originally Posted By Supercuda Originally Posted By pyp1000 actually, I had 11 volts in both crank and run on both sides of the ballast. I thought that was weird. Having the same voltage on both sides of the ballast during start is normal. Actually not. While cranking the run circuit power should decay the same ammount than the coil source in run. That's why the brake light ( and oil if equipped ) on cluster dimms out while cranking, they are on Run circuit Put a meter on it and come back with your results. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334712 07/10/17 02:27 PM 07/10/17 02:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,098 Valencia, España	I have done it... with multitester, with test bulb, and the brake/oil lights dimming on cluster trying to crank confirms that. With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: NachoRT74] #2334736 07/10/17 02:51 PM 07/10/17 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,498 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,498 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted By NachoRT74 Originally Posted By 72 RR DUDE Wire's are back words on the ballast resister. There is no a way to conect backwards a resistor hey Nacho, If one hooks a resistor up backwards it will become a compliant circuit RIGHT ??? Sorry couldn't resist (no pun intended) www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334970 07/10/17 10:08 PM 07/10/17 10:08 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Most likely a bad engine to battery cable/connection, or engine to firewall ground. Could also be the factory type ECU ground to firewall. I have traced this problem to a ground loop issue on several vehicles. Seems pretty common with the stock type ECU. Under the current load of cranking the starter, the ECU magnetic pickup reference voltage changes to where the ECU does not correctly sense the magnetic pulse, so no fire until the current load from the starter motor stops. You could just trigger the MSD from the magnetic pickup too, and not use the white wire trigger from the factory type ECU. With the MSD, no need to have a ballast resistor either (unless using a 5-pin factory ecu that requires the dual style ballast resistor.) Still need to fix the grounding problem in either case.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334973 07/10/17 10:13 PM 07/10/17 10:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 857 charlotte,nc pyp1000 OP super stock
pyp1000 OP super stock Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 857 charlotte,nc	Whew. It looks like I have my work cut out for me. The cam sensor in my daily driver went bad so I have to get that fixed first. It may take me a day or so to start the trouble shooting that you all have suggested. I will keep you updated.

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2334990 07/10/17 10:31 PM 07/10/17 10:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,392 St. Charles, MO wingman Uncreative Title
wingman Uncreative Title Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,392 St. Charles, MO	Originally Posted By pyp1000 Whew. It looks like I have my work cut out for me. The cam sensor in my daily driver went bad so I have to get that fixed first. It may take me a day or so to start the trouble shooting that you all have suggested. I will keep you updated. Unhook the white wire--do not use it. Unhook the ballast resistor--do not use it. Then twist your "start" and "run" circuit wires together and hook them to the small red. Fixed. This is the simplest way to run an MSD in a Mopar, but for some reason sometimes people make it complicated. The MSD instructions could be clearer, I guess... 1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)

Re: car will only start when releasing key to run position? [Re: pyp1000] #2335338 07/11/17 02:42 PM 07/11/17 02:42 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Originally Posted By pyp1000 The big red msd power wire is coming off the big lug on the starter. The big black msd ground wire is is grounded to the body underneath the battery tray. You should probably check that ground connection closely, maybe even try connecting to the battery. It could be just a dirty, oxidized connection that combined with the voltage droop from cranking is keeping the MSD from working as it used to. Areas around the battery are prone to oxidation.

Page 2 of 3

1

2

3

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1