how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
#2298196
05/03/17 11:33 AM
05/03/17 11:33 AM
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79410aspenrt
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i have been looking at the BPE 205 CNC head and also the Hughes Engines CNC RPM head. when i go onto the Hughes site and look at the flow #'s, the are way better then BPE. this is what i took off Hughes site,
RPM CNC (not bigmouth)
lift INT EXT 300 221 156 400 266 185 500 296 206 600 303 218
BPE 205cc CNC
lift INT EXT 300 197 186 400 249 208 500 275 215 600 291 222
is the RPM head the better choice?
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298225
05/03/17 12:16 PM
05/03/17 12:16 PM
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fast68plymouth
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I never assume flow numbers gleaned from different benches can be compared as truly "apples to apples".
Same for dyno results from different dynos.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298228
05/03/17 12:18 PM
05/03/17 12:18 PM
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B3422W5
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i have been looking at the BPE 205 CNC head and also the Hughes Engines CNC RPM head. when i go onto the Hughes site and look at the flow #'s, the are way better then BPE. this is what i took off Hughes site,
RPM CNC (not bigmouth)
lift INT EXT 300 221 156 400 266 185 500 296 206 600 303 218
BPE 205cc CNC
lift INT EXT 300 197 186 400 249 208 500 275 215 600 291 222
is the RPM head the better choice? Just my opinion, but I would be Rod's head will make significantly more power, probably more than the bigmouth as well.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: scottb]
#2298337
05/03/17 03:42 PM
05/03/17 03:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,201 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
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All I'll add is a local guy built an engine with Hugh's ported Edelbrocks (not big mouths) and it didn't perform as expected so he called me to flow test his heads. I was busy at the time so another local Friend flow tested them for him. He was not happy at all especially after my Friend said he couldn't even correct the issues. He bought a set of BPE heads and I didn't hear the results but I expect to hear much better news.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298347
05/03/17 03:53 PM
05/03/17 03:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251 Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
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i have heard that Hughes #'s are a bit off. it looks very good on paper but if other people have tested them on there benches and got different results, it's no use getting them.
with the exhaust flow higher, does that mean more efficient? i'm no engine builder but want to learn.
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298377
05/03/17 04:35 PM
05/03/17 04:35 PM
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fast68plymouth
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I have no idea which version of the Hughes CNC program this was.... It was from about 3 years ago. 2.08 intake valve, fully CNC ported, did not need offset intake rockers. The thing I remember most about it was how low the intake short turn was. I didn't think you could take that much out without hitting water.
4.00" bore, no tube on exhaust, radius plate on intake. Intake flowed 281 @.700, exhaust 203.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298392
05/03/17 04:58 PM
05/03/17 04:58 PM
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70AARcuda
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Eddy CNC from MCH done back in 2010
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#2298413
05/03/17 05:46 PM
05/03/17 05:46 PM
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pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
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Edelbrock heads STOCK max out at 243 average on my bench. I can get them up to an honest 315 with a 2.08 valve and without moving the pushrod (tubing them and touching the tube) it takes LOTS of work and I flow every single port (and test air-speed) on the head multiple times to get it there. I bought a set of Harlan Sharp .350 off-set rockers but so far the little bit of tinkiering I've done the results have been disappointing. I will make it pay-off with testing sooner or later. The nice thing about the later style Speedmaster and ProMaxx heads is you can play with the floor more as there is more meat and less water passages.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2298417
05/03/17 06:10 PM
05/03/17 06:10 PM
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360tripleblack77
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When I ported my RPM heads I just keep one runner of intake, exhaust, chamber and valve job untouchable to have comparison of my porting in the same flow bench. As John said, best flow that I found as cast on intake was 244@.600". Some pictures: Intake: Ported vs Cast Chamber: Ported vs Cast Exhaust: On Flow Bench Flow Chart:
'77 Brazilian Dodge Charger R/T - Street Car Footbrake, Pump Gas, SB Mopar 360" N/A 3300lbs, Leaf Spring + Assassin Bars Best 1/8 mile ET 1.50 60' / 4.31 330' / 6.73@102.54mph
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 360tripleblack77]
#2298421
05/03/17 06:24 PM
05/03/17 06:24 PM
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pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
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See how your flow number dropped from 300@.600 to 292@700? I'm betting if you check air-speed at the short-turn its over 410 FPS. If you widen the port there and slow the speed it will flow more. Its skipping the short turn some right now I'm betting.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298652
05/04/17 01:26 AM
05/04/17 01:26 AM
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Crizila
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Fully ported Magnums by Hughes. Their #'s fall right in there with what has been posted on this thread. Haven't seen any ET improvement over the fully "home" ported cast iron Magnums I was running. The push rod tubes could cause more turbulence than they are worth?
Fastest 300
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298827
05/04/17 12:18 PM
05/04/17 12:18 PM
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fast68plymouth
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If the BPE heads flow anywhere close to 290cfm unported, they should work well.
Working with a semi-clean sheet of paper, as they did....... I don't think it would be that hard to improve on the rpm head.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2298841
05/04/17 12:48 PM
05/04/17 12:48 PM
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B3422W5
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If the BPE heads flow anywhere close to 290cfm unported, they should work well.
Working with a semi-clean sheet of paper, as they did....... I don't think it would be that hard to improve on the rpm head. BPE heads are CNC ported as delivered. Brett was involved in the port design. Bischoff( BES racing engines)does the CNC porting and valve job. Both those guys know how to make proven power. Extremely nice work. Looked at the heads last summer at Norwalk. I think they will capably support 650 horsepower with right combination.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2298868
05/04/17 01:35 PM
05/04/17 01:35 PM
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krautrock
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All I'll add is a local guy built an engine with Hugh's ported Edelbrocks (not big mouths) and it didn't perform as expected so he called me to flow test his heads. I was busy at the time so another local Friend flow tested them for him. He was not happy at all especially after my Friend said he couldn't even correct the issues. He bought a set of BPE heads and I didn't hear the results but I expect to hear much better news. here is the thread. it's really long. i'm posting a link that takes you to the post with the pics of the BPE heads. i don't think the BPE heads got flowed but the motor was supposed to be dyno'd this past monday, the guy hasn't posted any results though... http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/missed-on-this-combo.374177/page-14#post-1971634567long story short, the torque was soft at lower rpm's. the guy figured out his Hughes rockers arms weren't actually 1.6 ratio. he found out the hughes heads weren't flowing as much as he expected and RAMM said his experience with some similar Hughes heads was the short side was weird. will be interesting to see if the motor makes more power with true rockers ratios and the BPE heads...
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#2298915
05/04/17 02:54 PM
05/04/17 02:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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BPE heads are CNC ported as delivered I was under the impression that the smaller version were "as cast". You're saying both versions are CNC ported?(I'm asking...... I don't know if they are or aren't)
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2298918
05/04/17 02:57 PM
05/04/17 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
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pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
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BPE heads are CNC ported as delivered I was under the impression that the smaller version were "as cast". You're saying both versions are CNC ported?(I'm asking...... I don't know if they are or aren't) Both are cnc ported but the bigger cc ones require offset rockers
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: how accurate is Hughes cfm charts?
[Re: B3422W5]
#2298941
05/04/17 03:36 PM
05/04/17 03:36 PM
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B3422W5
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If the BPE heads flow anywhere close to 290cfm unported, they should work well.
Working with a semi-clean sheet of paper, as they did....... I don't think it would be that hard to improve on the rpm head. BPE heads are CNC ported as delivered. Brett was involved in the port design. Bischoff( BES racing engines)does the CNC porting and valve job. Both those guys know how to make proven power. Extremely nice work. Looked at the heads last summer at Norwalk. I think they will capably support 650 horsepower with right combination. It wouldn't have a 195 cc intake if it was as cast. Aren't the edelbrock type castings 170 something as cast?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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