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Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- #2283541 04/06/17 07:35 PM 04/06/17 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Sorry guys, l've been a SB guy for 30 years and this rb stuff is foreign to me and I have lots of questions so I need some opinions on this. I just bought a 80's pro street (real) 6bbl cuda that has a mild 906 head, 440 and a 850 with a single plane and want to convert it back to some form of a 6 barrel again with a end goal of around 700-750(streetable) horse and it MUST fit under the factory shaker hood. I'm not really hung up on what head goes on or how big the cam is. stroking it could be on the table but I'm not against a higher revving combination either.My last small block was pretty aggressive and that's OK by me. Pump gas (not e85) is a must here. My initial thoughts were of going with ported victor or Indy heads, a mod man intake and a efi 6bbl setup but all the posts are quite old and not up to date on people's results. I can't find any info if a mod man six barrel setup will fit under a shaker as I can't find any intake heights. Carbs are not totally out of the question with the factory intake but what aftermarket head will flow the best and still accommodate a factory 6bbl intake? I know using a six barrel setup to make bigger numbers isn't ideal but it would be sac religious to not put it back on....but I'm not willing to go slow either.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283553 04/06/17 07:54 PM 04/06/17 07:54 PM
C crabman173 Unregistered
crabman173 Unregistered C	I don't think it is possible with factory intake / carb set up--that is one lofty goal HP wise and the word streetable close to it The intake is the governor and choke point Any 511 style stroker you do will throw up 560-600 HP easy as pie but 750 is a darn long way from 600 This will be interesting

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283568 04/06/17 08:18 PM 04/06/17 08:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,505 TN S SCATPACK 1 pro stock
SCATPACK 1 pro stock S Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,505 TN	Originally Posted By 72demon416 Sorry guys, l've been a SB guy for 30 years and this rb stuff is foreign to me and I have lots of questions so I need some opinions on this. I just bought a 80's pro street (real) 6bbl cuda that has a mild 906 head, 440 and a 850 with a single plane and want to convert it back to some form of a 6 barrel again with a end goal of around 700-750(streetable) horse and it MUST fit under the factory shaker hood. I'm not really hung up on what head goes on or how big the cam is. stroking it could be on the table but I'm not against a higher revving combination either.My last small block was pretty aggressive and that's OK by me. Pump gas (not e85) is a must here. My initial thoughts were of going with ported victor or Indy heads, a mod man intake and a efi 6bbl setup but all the posts are quite old and not up to date on people's results. I can't find any info if a mod man six barrel setup will fit under a shaker as I can't find any intake heights. Carbs are not totally out of the question with the factory intake but what aftermarket head will flow the best and still accommodate a factory 6bbl intake? I know using a six barrel setup to make bigger numbers isn't ideal but it would be sac religious to not put it back on....but I'm not willing to go slow either. Well congrats on finding a 6BBL CUDA. WOOHOO now the fun begins. If you remember, Paul Rossi ran a 440 6 pack in a 70 Challenger with the old Weiand 6 pack intake and it fit under the stock TA hood. I had one of those on my car for a while but with a 1050 Dominator intake and with the tall spacer required to make the Dominator work, i doubt it would have worked with the shaker I now have on my car. I have not heard anything good about the mod man intake. My Challenger was dyno'd at 650+ with a stock stroke a big roller cam, the above intake with dominator and a LOT of work on the 906 heads to get big flow numbers out of them. Look up six pack in the search engine. I seem to remember a post a while back about some modifications that were being done by Muscle Motors or someone that was getting really high HP numbers from them. Good luck with yoru build. Post some pictures of yoru find. Old Geezer Racing

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: SCATPACK 1] #2283572 04/06/17 08:31 PM 04/06/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	I know the stock intake is a choke point for my goals which is why I thought the mod man might like the big cube or high rpm play field better. I was banking on the efi to resolve the crappy fuel distribution the intake is known to have with carbs.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283578 04/06/17 09:00 PM 04/06/17 09:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina sasquatch master
sasquatch master Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina	For your info the Modman is 5.5 inches tall if that helps. It can be done but not cheap or easy. Todd www.mopartsracing.com

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283579 04/06/17 09:00 PM 04/06/17 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina sgcuda master
sgcuda master Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina	The Weiand six pack intake will not work with the stock shaker hood, too tall. Maybe a sheetmetal short runner tunnel ram with a top for using 3 split Dominators, but that might be something that gets costly. [image][/image]

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: sasquatch] #2283589 04/06/17 09:44 PM 04/06/17 09:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Thanks for the intake measurement, now I just need to find one for the oem 6 bbl intake.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283611 04/06/17 10:30 PM 04/06/17 10:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas CSK master
CSK master Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas	Originally Posted By 72demon416 Thanks for the intake measurement, now I just need to find one for the oem 6 bbl intake. From member Sasquatch, Carb pad height on the factory sixpack is 5.25 to the pad (edelbrock catalog page 58) Ask and ye shall receive. Todd 1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: CSK] #2283632 04/06/17 11:03 PM 04/06/17 11:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Thanks! I'm assuming that the mod man intake height was to the carb pad as well? I'm guessing that the top plates are all pretty close to being the heights- does anybody know if this is correct? Indy doesn't seem to give much tech info on it from what I can see.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283706 04/07/17 12:49 AM 04/07/17 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,995 Oregon	Well the six pack intake is a good intake up to a point but I don't think that point includes 700+ hp. If you build a nice RB based 505 with good heads like the Trick Flow 240 and a pump gas compression ratio of 10.5 or so then you might be able to squeeze out 700 hp if you have a really good intake manifold and a big carb and fairly aggressive camshaft. But as soon as you pull off a really good single plane intake and replace it with a factory six pack intake you are going to lose a bunch of power. I did a dyno test a while back where I tried a ported dual plane intake on a 800 hp race engine. We promptly lost 100 hp and the EGTs went crazy due to fuel mixture issues. There might be some FAST guys who have figured out how to squeeze 700+ hp out of an RB engine with a six pack intake but I'm guessing that it took a lot of compression, a bunch of porting and a fairly big cam.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: AndyF] #2283716 04/07/17 01:10 AM 04/07/17 01:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	I guess I was hoping the mod man with its big plenum and short straight runners would eliminate the intake as being the bottleneck and have the efi sort out the fuel distribution issues that are prevalent with it. I'm ok with a big roller and maybe comp up to 11.0-11.5. I would like to be able to go with the best head that can be made work as if I stick with my ported 906's I'm working around another handicap. Any cubic inch size is fair game as well. So you think the TFS is a better choice then the Victor or Indy offerings for this?

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283720 04/07/17 01:19 AM 04/07/17 01:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,762 Hot Rod Ridge FastmOp master
FastmOp master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,762 Hot Rod Ridge	Send a stock intake to Wilson with your game plan. Have them convert it to EFI after porting and build it over 500 cubic inches.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283734 04/07/17 01:42 AM 04/07/17 01:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.	IMO, you're going about it wrong....... or rather, you're focusing on the parts, and an arbitrary hp number instead of the application. Figure out the things that are the highest priority for the finished product(like a 6bbl that fits under the stock hood), what gears, converter, etc you'd like to use in the car....... then build the motor around those things that are a "given"......... and it will just make what it makes. Unless it's a race car that requires a certain amount of power to be competitive in a particular class, or to reach a performance target....... then it's just a number. For street cars, I find it makes more sense to build the motor so that it works well how it's being used "most" of the time......... and if that means you give up 20, 30, 50hp of peak power...... it's not really a big deal. Basically, for a given engine size, the TQ won't really change that much even if the top end HP is down 25-50HP........besides.........mostly what you feel in the seat of your pants when driving around on the road, is the TQ. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: FastmOp] #2283739 04/07/17 01:51 AM 04/07/17 01:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Yeah... I never considered their services

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: fast68plymouth] #2283751 04/07/17 02:21 AM 04/07/17 02:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Yeah, I know this is kind of a ass backwards way of approaching this. I was focusing on the intake as thats what I felt was the biggest bottleneck in this thing making decent power. Basically it's going to be a streetable strip car, runs a 29x12.5 tire with 4.10s. I have a 2500 stall and a 4500 stall so either is fair game in the car- I can live with either depending on the end combo, Probably will weight 3700 with me in it. Basically I want it to perform as well as my Demon did (low 10's at 130) even though this car will have more motor. I can live with it being a little (a lot) radical. My thoughts were shoot for the moon on power with what can be made fit -simply to overcompensate for a chassis or engine that's probably not always going to be dialled in to the n'th degree. It will never be a class car that I need to worry about rules, won't need to have the worlds best 60' but I do want it to outrun "most" of whats commonly out running around on the street.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283752 04/07/17 02:25 AM 04/07/17 02:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 4,669 Wichita G GY3 master
GY3 master G Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 4,669 Wichita	Build a reliable, easy 600 HP engine and add a 150 shot of N2O. '63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: GY3] #2283753 04/07/17 02:29 AM 04/07/17 02:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 OP pro stock
72demon416 OP pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	I thought of that, the only refill station around here though is my competition who I want to outrun N/A

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283786 04/07/17 07:53 AM 04/07/17 07:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,389 nielsville, minn. Q quickd100 master
quickd100 master Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,389 nielsville, minn.	Rather than put lipstick on a pig by using the factory 6bbl intake why not just space the K-member down for some clearance and use a decent manifold.Dave

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: quickd100] #2283790 04/07/17 08:41 AM 04/07/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 4,669 Wichita G GY3 master
GY3 master G Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 4,669 Wichita	I REALLY wanted to run a crossram on my '63 for the "look" more than anything. After seeing how it simply wasn't a good choice for my goals, I ended up going with a single 4 bbl. The one concession I made was for everything to fit under the stock, flat hood.

Re: Recipe for 700hp six pack 440 or bigger- [Re: 72demon416] #2283808 04/07/17 09:59 AM 04/07/17 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By 72demon416 Yeah, I know this is kind of a ass backwards way of approaching this. I've probably(?) been guilty of the same thing on occasion. Is the real constraint that it all needs to fit under the factory 'Cuda Shaker hood? Are you're tied to using an RB block? Last edited by BradH; 04/07/17 10:00 AM.

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