Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2280552
04/01/17 09:33 PM
04/01/17 09:33 PM
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Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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.......don't know if the 270 heads make X more power and the costs per hp for that difference. I think common sense should be the driving decision maker here. Engine builds geared more towards the milder street applications, or moderate compression bracket builds using stock stroke cranks might tend to favor the 240's, while the higher hp "rowdier" combos, especially those with stroker cranks, should be able to exploit the added runner size and flow of the 270's. In other words, if you're looking for a 550-600hp 446, the 240's make more sense. If you're looking at doing something like a 700-750hp 505 or 520, then the 270's will get you there easier. For the 600-700hp crowd, the choice won't be as clear, and which one you select might come down to what other components/criteria are being considered(for example, does it all need to fit under a flat hood?).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2280810
04/02/17 12:01 PM
04/02/17 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I thought I'd add a couple of other thoughts.......
I like doing my own heads, but obviously most people don't have the capabilities/equipment to do that.
So as nice as the TF heads are, if I were building something for myself where the TF heads would be a suitable option, I'd use the Indy EZ heads instead. I can buy the EZ's for quite a bit less than the TF heads, and then do the prep and porting myself.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: viperblue72]
#2281065
04/02/17 07:02 PM
04/02/17 07:02 PM
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Joined: May 2008
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@#$%&*!
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So this is a direct comparison of the 240 vs 270 other than intakes being a Wilson ported vs a ootb 400-3? And 720hp for the 240s 754 for the 270s. ??? Did I get this right without reading back through 5 pages again and watching videos trying to screenshot the horsepower peaks. A summary with compression ratios and cam specs would be nice.
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2281142
04/02/17 09:28 PM
04/02/17 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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My gut feeling is, in a "bracket race" 512 application there would be more difference between the two heads...... But even if there wasn't...... After the motor has already been built, where are you going to find an extra 25hp for $400?(Which is what the difference in price between the 240's and 270's is).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2281163
04/02/17 09:56 PM
04/02/17 09:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Awesome of you to do this, Andy. What cam and compression are you running? This is the type of data that can save people a lot of time (and money) when it comes to putting together combinations and picking parts suitable to their budget and needs. Thanks for sharing, and hopefully TF is thanking you too...
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#2281324
04/03/17 02:03 AM
04/03/17 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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fast68plymouth
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My gut feeling is, in a "bracket race" 512 application there would be more difference between the two heads...... But even if there wasn't...... After the motor has already been built, where are you going to find an extra 25hp for $400?(Which is what the difference in price between the 240's and 270's is). And the flip-side would be: what engine would be BETTER with the smaller heads. It's probably not a stroked motor. Well, I have seen many stroker builds on this site where the 240's would make more sense than the 270's. In order to really exploit the added potential of the 270 heads, you're going to want to run a fairly substantial cam and have enough intake manifold to keep up......... then you need more gear and more stall to match. That's just not what everyone is building. In fact, I'd say that might be 1/2 of what the people who call me are looking for. The other 1/2 could usually have their needs satisfied with stage 1 RPM heads....... only now with the 240's in the mix, they are an option that offers "more bang for the buck"........ but in many cases, even those would be a bit of overkill. It's no different than what the BBC guys have had for years. The largest runner volume head offered by the various suppliers isn't the best choice for every application.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: RustyM]
#2281325
04/03/17 02:05 AM
04/03/17 02:05 AM
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fast68plymouth
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Well, Dwayne , got me wondering now if I should have gotten the 270 heads. Hmm. This will see more street time than strip so, should be fine. All advice I found indicated the 240 heads were a good choice, hit our numbers , keep Intake velocity up etc.
Will know after we hit dyno . For the numbers you said were the target, the 240's will easily get you there.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2281481
04/03/17 12:44 PM
04/03/17 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I'm going to speculate a little further here.....
Andy is saying it's a 25hp difference for how he tested the heads, but I feel that's probably not representative of how the heads would get used by "most" people........ Meaning, I don't foresee many builds using the 240 heads being topped by an intake manifold with what's likely over $1000 worth of labor done to it.
I'm thinking on a typical "bracket race" 505" type build, where both the 240 and 270 combo would be run with what is more the norm...... A port matched single plane...... That there would be more like 50hp difference. The 240's using something like a TF intake with a 950-ish 4150 carb, and the 270's running a 440-3 with a 1050 4500 carb.
The added power comes from not only the bigger heads, but also the bigger intake manifold.
My 50hp guesstimate makes the assumption that what the heads got put on would have enough cam, compression, exhaust to take advantage of the larger induction system.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2281517
04/03/17 01:42 PM
04/03/17 01:42 PM
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RustyM
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2282268
04/04/17 03:16 PM
04/04/17 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I'm going to speculate a little further here.....
Andy is saying it's a 25hp difference for how he tested the heads, but I feel that's probably not representative of how the heads would get used by "most" people........ Meaning, I don't foresee many builds using the 240 heads being topped by an intake manifold with what's likely over $1000 worth of labor done to it.
I'm thinking on a typical "bracket race" 505" type build, where both the 240 and 270 combo would be run with what is more the norm...... A port matched single plane...... That there would be more like 50hp difference. The 240's using something like a TF intake with a 950-ish 4150 carb, and the 270's running a 440-3 with a 1050 4500 carb.
The added power comes from not only the bigger heads, but also the bigger intake manifold.
My 50hp guesstimate makes the assumption that what the heads got put on would have enough cam, compression, exhaust to take advantage of the larger induction system. This is exactly why this test is misleading...b/c of the high dollar, very good flowing intake manifold used on the smaller heads. The bigger heads got saddled w/ a poor flowing intake (by comparison) and the numbers suffered. Not a true A to B test so we're left making assumptions.
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2282277
04/04/17 03:37 PM
04/04/17 03:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,705 Nebraska
70VcodeCoronetRT
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Since TF is not offering a max wedge port intake. I would love to see a comparison between the 2 heads using the Trick Flow intake. Also is there any left in the 240 head with some cleaning up? Or is that just a waste of time?
Last edited by 4406forPOWER; 04/04/17 03:39 PM.
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