Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2275858
03/25/17 10:52 AM
03/25/17 10:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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up yours
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You leave out the most important part of deciding what to use when rebuilding your transmission.
power levels thru the trans.
Stock 2bbl 318, build it stock with minor durability tweaks.
Twin turbo 408 pushing 750hp, better upgrade.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2276022
03/25/17 03:19 PM
03/25/17 03:19 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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What are the dark grey/green frictions? I think the High Energy version from borg warner? Bulk Part messed up an order and sent me them insted of the Alto Red clutches and I have never used them. How good are those?
Last edited by 451Mopar; 03/25/17 03:27 PM.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2276076
03/25/17 05:22 PM
03/25/17 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
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I built my 727 in my 63 with all stock Mopar clutches and plates. And I use the Mopar seal kit also. Since I worked at a Dodge dealer for 24 years and did trans work I have some 727 clutches around and I use them. The only parts in my 727 that are not stock Mopar parts are the rear sprag (overrunning clutch) , the valve body as I use a Turbo Action reverse manual valve body and the converter which is a 9.5 Dynamic unit. Its a street car I race once or twice a year and its been holding up great since 2006. About the only other mod is I blocked the accumulator. Runs in the 10's and has not given me any trouble. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/25/17 05:23 PM.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2276437
03/26/17 12:57 PM
03/26/17 12:57 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Thanks transman, the Jeep has a 5.2 Magnum swap with a stock 727 from his 80 ramcharger. The 727 build is for my stock 1979 360 Warlock..I cant stand the lockup trans in it and I am swapping the engine to a rebuilt 360 from a 74. Gonna do another non lock up trans for it at the same time. Nice. Have any pictures of the Warlock? I haven't seen one in 30 years. If you lived closer, I'd give you a 4-wheel drive 727. I have two just sitting around missing the transfer cases.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: dogdays]
#2276581
03/26/17 04:19 PM
03/26/17 04:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,104 Michigan
A727Tflite
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master
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Michigan
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There is nothing weaker in a 2bbl trans than a 4bbl trans for the same model year. The main difference between them is to accomplish shift quality and shift timing. Between years there were changes - we made improvements for high horsepower and torque and durability, but a properly built 383 2bbl trans behind a 440 drag motor making north of 500 hp is a piece of cake.
Think about this for a second. No one used billet parts - none - back in the 70's and 80's and those drag cars were going low tens and high to mid 9's. Race converter and a TA Cheetah was the "soup for the day" and no one was failing units. And 99.9% didn't have bolt in overrunning clutches either. Everything was relatively new back then - parts wise in the transmissions being used.
The point i am trying to make - most guys can successfully use a "standard" 727 if it is properly built. The biggest obstacle is understanding what hard parts to throw in the garbage versus reuse.
The best core to start with is one that came from a car that was crashed and before it was crashed came from Ma or Pa kettles car - never got beat on and probably never saw overheat conditions. Sorry for the verbose reply - but you asked.
Probably the vast majority of street racers, cruisers, bracket cars can use a 4 disc front drum, 3 or 4 planetary pinion carriers, flexible front band, non- billet servo parts IT YOU USE GOOD PARTS.
As for the 904, 998, 999 - number of clutches and band widths - the main unit's differences.
Then again there are guys (and gals) that can ruin an anvil in a sandbox with a rubber hammer.
Last edited by Transman; 03/26/17 04:25 PM.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2276687
03/26/17 07:17 PM
03/26/17 07:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,104 Michigan
A727Tflite
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Michigan
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Understood sthemi - next time i'm that way i'll stop by and pick it up if you want to sell it. ( i can't seem to get the smiling face to post here ). My freind had a Lil Red and towed his 64 Plymouth drag car with it - those pipes sure did roar when he got on it from a light. Another friend has it now and it sets around not getting much use - i told him to sell it so someone else could enjoy it.
Last edited by Transman; 03/26/17 07:20 PM.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: dogdays]
#2276704
03/26/17 07:49 PM
03/26/17 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,995 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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Needs to be pointed out here that Mopar transmissiions were built to9 the original engine's torque output. Or maybe overbuilt.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: dvw]
#2276876
03/27/17 12:03 AM
03/27/17 12:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
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up yours
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Easy to swap the lock-up into nonlock-up. Swap the input shaft, reaction support, valve body. Doug And torque converter
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: dogdays]
#2277242
03/27/17 04:41 PM
03/27/17 04:41 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Needs to be pointed out here that Mopar transmissiions were built to9 the original engine's torque output. So a 318 trans is the weakest of all transmissions that would be built in that case. Transman should enlighten us how to get that trans to a higher torque level. It's similar with 904s with the 318 getting the 998 and the 360 getting the 999.
I became aware of this when I bought a "bulletproof" rebuilt motorhome transmission only to find out it was a 2-barrel 383 tranny dressed as the MH transmission. I didn't know about the ID numbers until later, to my chagrin.
R There really is not much difference in a 318 transmission and a 440 transmission. Most of the major changes were year specific. A few pieces that may be different are the 3 pinion or 4 pinion planetary, and a 3 or 4 or 5 clutch front drum and the number of springs in the drum. There may also be a different governor weight for different shift points, but the rest is pretty much the same. Some of the year changes would be if it has a rear pump, cable shift, cable park, early (pre-67) converter spline count, narrow or wide front drum bushing which also caused a change to the pump support. That just some of the '60-mid '70 changes before lockup converter, and the change in the spline pressure angles.
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2277635
03/28/17 12:09 PM
03/28/17 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
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What are the dark grey/green frictions? I think the High Energy version from borg warner? Bulk Part messed up an order and sent me them insted of the Alto Red clutches and I have never used them. How good are those?
Those are what I used in the hi torque Diesel builds when I was a DTT installer in the early 2000's
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Automatic Transmission questions for the experienced
[Re: sthemi]
#2277879
03/28/17 06:24 PM
03/28/17 06:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,104 Michigan
A727Tflite
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Doug captured most of it for the gasket and seal kit. If you buy the master kit with frictions and steel separator plates there are thickness differences from the early to later MY units - I forgot where the break was. If I recall correctly the early were thin then we went to thick on both the steels and frictions. The later design had greater heat capacity so they were less likely to potato chip from overheating. There were some design changes along the way regarding seals - primarily for wear resistance and cold weather operation and to prevent heat aging - the better kits, maybe all at this point have those improvements.
If you are positive no one has taken the trans apart and updated it or made a lockup out of a non or vice versa - then order the kit for your MY application. The later style feeds the rear clutch though the rear seal on the input shaft and a seal on the rear clutch piston support where the early units fed the rear clutch through the two seals on the input shaft. Many guys forget that large seal on the rear clutch piston support - you get a no drive condition and sometimes a drive/creep in neutral condition. All I can say for guys doing one is go slow - take pictures, match seal in the kit against where it lives in the trans before
throwing out the old ones. Nothing more disturbing than getting the trans done and find a seal left over without explanation. The correct year service manual is usually helpfulll too.
Last edited by Transman; 03/28/17 06:26 PM.
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