Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272049
03/18/17 11:03 PM
03/18/17 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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My machinist told me that a solid roller is worth 15 hp over a solid flat tappet (in a race application). That is at same specs. A solid roller would allow you to maximize lift and duration over a flat tappet, though.
Last edited by sgcuda; 03/18/17 11:05 PM.
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: sgcuda]
#2272056
03/18/17 11:14 PM
03/18/17 11:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267 North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
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And no chance of a cam not broke in properly.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272060
03/18/17 11:30 PM
03/18/17 11:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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After adding up the cost of going roller vs solid I need to decide if the gains are worth the significant cost being that I already have crane ductile rockers, pushrods, and springs. Have any of you switched from solid to solid roller? If so what was the et or horsepower gain? If you have all of that stuff and want to use it, solid flat tappet. If you don't mind spending some money and want to put a larger cam ( >.700ish lift) you will want to go roller ,aside from all of the other flat tappet break in issues. It all depends on displacement, cylinder head capability, and what you are looking for out of your engine package. If you are running a 350+ CFM head the characteristics of the solid roller lobe (faster valve movement) and added lift might surpass the output of the biggest solid ft cam when it becomes unstable due to the lower spring pressures. Whatcha building anyway?
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272096
03/19/17 12:37 AM
03/19/17 12:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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I am building a 512 low deck. 11.7 to 1 Sidewinder heads ported will flow 300ish. Mostly strip car, some street. I plan to optimize the combo for bracket racing. But within reason so that it's a reliable combo.
Last edited by viperblue72; 03/19/17 12:39 AM.
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272167
03/19/17 04:56 AM
03/19/17 04:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I figured since my car was a street car and I am not out to set a world record I would use the solid flat tappet. One reason is that its a cheaper setup and cash is always needed around me. And the second reason is I dont want to pull the lifters every few years to check them. I have heard of roller lifters loosing a needle bearing and wasting an eng. Now I know many guys do run them but I figured I would want a nice one and it would need good spring pressure. Who knows I could have run a roller and got away with it for many years but I would feel better pulling the lifters every few years and check them for piece of mind since I put a good amount of miles on my car each year. Like Dwayne Porter told me that valve float is bad with roller cams so you need to run much more spring pressure with a nice size roller you plan to race some. Valve float can let the cam hammer the lifter some which is tuff on the roller needles. So you do want to be sure you run the proper spring pressure with the roller. Yes it will make some more power but I have no complaints with my flat tappet cam. And I am not trash talking rollers as tons of people run them and do fine but I just would not want to be the guy that has a roller lifter come apart because I did not pull and check them every few years. Good luck which ever you choose. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/19/17 04:59 AM.
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272242
03/19/17 11:26 AM
03/19/17 11:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Chicago, IL
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I'm also with Ron on this. It's the classic trade off of performance vs cost vs reliability. If I had everything but the cam in my posession, and money isn't hanging from a tree in my yard, I would be looking seriously at a solid flat tappet. You're looking at around 2k for the entire roller set up incl rockers and pushrods or 300 for custom solid flat and lifters. If starting from scratch w no money concerns, roller all the way.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: TonyS451]
#2272255
03/19/17 11:48 AM
03/19/17 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I have both set ups right now.. normally I would run a roller but I went with a SFT a couple of months back so I could run less spring pressure.. I have the EDM hole in both set ups.. the reason I did go with the SFT was because the injection didnt like the roller set up... but I'm finding out it really wasnt the cam that was the issue... I think if you were to look back you might find that SFT cams fail far more often than roller cams.. so far I have not had a roller cam/lifters fail in over 20 years of running a roller cam...I will see how it goes with the SFT
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272279
03/19/17 12:34 PM
03/19/17 12:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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I am building a 512 low deck. 11.7 to 1 Sidewinder heads ported will flow 300ish. Mostly strip car, some street. I plan to optimize the combo for bracket racing. But within reason so that it's a reliable combo. My Isky solid roller has been awesome for years mostly street which makes it more impressive w/gentle lobes but VERY nasty when stomped. Solid body lifters rebuilt once and still rockin.............Do it........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272283
03/19/17 12:44 PM
03/19/17 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,138 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,138
Benton, IL.
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There for a while we didn't seem to have many (if any) good choices for flat lifters. But now we have a couple of good choices. The EDMs have gotten good reviews. And Barton has a tool steel lifter that I have had good service from. So, I think we have some choices now for flat tappets that can rival or exceed rollers for dependability and longevity. At least in some applications.
Master, again and still
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272285
03/19/17 12:48 PM
03/19/17 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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I normally run the purpleshaft solid flat tappets but my '69 Dart had a 706/661 lift solid roller, raced it for 5 years without doing any roller lifter maintenance although I probably should have.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272305
03/19/17 01:09 PM
03/19/17 01:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I have never heard of a roller cam being wiped out upon startup. Yesterday at the track a guy was telling me about his experience of tearing down his new built engine to clean out the metal. I myself have did the same over the years. I'd look at the cost of pulling the engine and tear down and rebuild in your decision . Cheaper ,not that anything is nowadays as they say is not always the best way to go. From running flat tappet cams from the start in the 60's I now have a roller kit on the shelf for the next rebuild.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272319
03/19/17 01:24 PM
03/19/17 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What are you looking at for lift and duration on your cam.. what kind of HP are you thinking and is it a SB or BB.. you have to take into account the rpm you will run
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272338
03/19/17 02:00 PM
03/19/17 02:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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That is definitely one reason that I love roller cams is no more fear of failure at break in. And if I were starting from scratch it would be roller all the way. And that's what I have done in the past. But in my current case it appears the $ to hp gain etc. won't be worth the extra 1400 cost. If I ever get my Dart out of paint jail, I'll let you know how my mushroom cam is working. Very similar rates of lift/duration to a moderate roller (mine after minimal regrinding to restore lobe taper is 272@.050, .652 gross lift) without the "extra 1400" for valvetrain Although I was extremely nervous breaking it in! Outer springs only, good oil, lots of zinc. It's a trade off for sure...
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Re: Solid roller vs. Solid flat tappet
[Re: viperblue72]
#2272350
03/19/17 02:22 PM
03/19/17 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,427 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,427
Michigan
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After rolling a cam on a 360 I vowed never to run a flat tappet again. Still no idea what caused it. Chased down all the obvious stuff and never found anything.
Current motor is a mild 512 low deck build. Already bought a Comp XR280 roller setup.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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