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Hemi block to head cooling passage question #2249262
02/07/17 07:38 PM
02/07/17 07:38 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes OP
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World block, Edelbrock heads, .040 Cometic gaskets

I have been chasing an intermittent overheat issue on my right bank for a while now. I just now noticed that the water passages between the head and the block are blocked off as you can see in the following pics.

The water ports between the intake ports do not line up between the head and block. They are only connected by the slot in the head gasket. The yellow dots indicate where the holes in the block line up.

On the exhaust side, the block has 3 holes, one between each cylinder as indicated by the impressions on the gasket. The head only has 2. There is no center one. But all of them are completely blocked by the head gasket as you can see.

Both sides are the same. Is that the way they should be? It certainly doesn't make sense to me. But I wanted to see what the more experienced guys thought about his before I took any action. The head gaskets came from Ray Barton.

I appreciate your input. Thank you.





Master, again and still
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249307
02/07/17 09:02 PM
02/07/17 09:02 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I have been chasing an intermittent overheat issue on my right bank for a while now.
How/where are measuring/determining the temp difference? How much difference & how intermittent? the intermittent part puzzles me. here is a good read from one of the countries foremost SB cooling experts (alot applies). go to www.moparchat.com & scroll down to & click on "circle track chat" then read thru Sanborns' cooling mods that are in a sticky at the top of the page (long read, it'll take you a while). Here's a BTT for ya since you ain't gettin any love on your Q.


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Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249553
02/08/17 05:20 AM
02/08/17 05:20 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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I have a new World cast iron Hemi 4.500 bore block on a engine stand now waiting on parts to assemble it, I'll have to look at the Stage V heads once they get here to see what your pointing out is the same or not on them work
Are you using carbs or EFI on your motor ? How much temperature difference are you dealing with? How hot is the passenger side getting to?
I think all the production 426 Hemi and B and RB blocks do not allow water to circulate through the lower big holes your looking at shruggy
Most of the non HD production passenger car BB motors force the water to go to the rear of the block before transferring into the heads and then going forward to cool the heads before going back to the water pump to the radiator, they don't have the exhaust valve cooling passages either shruggy
IHThs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249648
02/08/17 01:01 PM
02/08/17 01:01 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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All I can say it is doesn't work like you and I think. Those 3 holes at the bottom are always covered up I believe. Those holes are probably to remove sand cores, not for cooling. You still have 8 steam holes for cooling next to them. The 3 at the top that don't line up are always like that I believe. Enough water gets thru to get the job done. You and I think that should all line up for cooling but we didn't design the cooling system and we don't know what it needs.


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Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249722
02/08/17 03:16 PM
02/08/17 03:16 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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I'm not at home where the stock Hemi head and block are but just looked at a 440 head and there sre no holes at the bottom and the tops are offset (could tell where the gasket had been) like yours. Don't have a clue why.

Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249755
02/08/17 04:34 PM
02/08/17 04:34 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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They want most of the water to flow from the exhaust side toward the intake side. the 8 holes closest to the exhaust ports are 90% of the cooling path. the upper slots are mostly to bleed air with minimal water flow. The water exits the head at the large opening at the front of the block only. I see nothing wrong with the pic you show.
If you have a Siamese block, you may consider adding bleeder holes at the figure 8 to get that section of the deck from collecting air pockets.

Last edited by TRENDZ; 02/08/17 04:36 PM.

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Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249843
02/08/17 06:45 PM
02/08/17 06:45 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Originally Posted By DaveRS23


The water ports between the intake ports do not line up between the head and block. They are only connected by the slot in the head gasket. The yellow dots indicate where the holes in the block line up.


I've often heard those referred to as "steam ports", that there was never any intention for a large volume of coolant to pass through them.


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Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2249851
02/08/17 07:08 PM
02/08/17 07:08 PM
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Duloc
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Are the steam holes drilled in the block ?

Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2250077
02/09/17 12:42 AM
02/09/17 12:42 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes OP
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First, thanks to everyone who responded. You were all pretty well on mark.

After talking to several different sources on this, it was Ray Barton that nailed it right off. The holes being blocked or severely restricted by the gasket is correct. And for the reasons mentioned above.

The problem with overheating during warm-up, but not being an issue after, is in my water pump housing. I had put a restriction in the bypass hole between the cool incoming water and hot outgoing water. That has never given me a problem on other engines. But for what ever reason, on this one, it didn't allow enough water to pass until the thermostat opened up. And so it would develop hot spots.

Barton has seen this before. It appears that this was a self inflicted wound, but one that will be very easy to remedy. I will simply need to remove the brass pipe plug that I had installed in the W/P housing. (The hole in the pipe plug was too small.)

As you may already know, the reason for installing the restriction in the first place was to reduce the amount of hot outgoing water from going directly into the cooler incoming water. But that opening also allows some water to circulate through the block when the thermostat is closed.

After I reassemble and reinstall the engine and make sure that the issue is put to bed, I will then experiment with the size of the orifice to find what will work best.

Thanks again for the responses. up


Master, again and still
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2250138
02/09/17 02:00 AM
02/09/17 02:00 AM
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South Louisiana
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If you can, please post pics of your water pump housing and the plug that you installed

Thanks,
Wader

Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DBCooper] #2250584
02/09/17 08:08 PM
02/09/17 08:08 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes OP
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Originally Posted By DBCooper
If you can, please post pics of your water pump housing and the plug that you installed

Thanks,
Wader


The hole in the brass plug is about .095. I ran the car with and without a thermostat while chasing this problem. It did not overheat without the thermostat. But then again, it took forever to even get to 150* on a 60* day.

So I put the thermostat (180*) back in and started drilling holes in it to see at what point the problem returned. That seemed to happen at about .375. I don't remember what size the hole was to begin with, but it probably wasn't a lot larger than that.

I know, I know. I should have just left it alone to begin with and I would not have had this issue. But I just can't leave well enough alone. Fortunately, I didn't hurt anything and I have learned a lot. But this has caused me a ton of time, work, and aggravation. rolleyes

One last point on this. I have been using the Mr Gasket high flow thermostat which does seem to have more flow than the stock replacement stuff. But it seems to me that the engine would be better of with even more flow in hot weather than this thermostat allows. I definitely want a thermostat. Both to ensure a quick warm up and to maintain an even engine temp as much as possible. Are there any thermostats available for us that will out flow the Mr Gaskets?

It looks to me that it's a waste to use a high volume water pump when using a thermostat, given that the thermostats flow so little.



Master, again and still
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2250716
02/09/17 11:27 PM
02/09/17 11:27 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Try the Stant brand of the 440 motor home thermostats scope
They are super high flow, I use the 160 F in my street cars that I run a thermostat in, I drill two .125 inch holes in the outer flange to let air out to help fill the motors up initially instead of waiting for the thermostat to open up to finish filling the cooling system up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2250746
02/10/17 12:14 AM
02/10/17 12:14 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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I've always liked t-stats they allowed us to run the same number round after round, engine stayed consistent temp.

Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: Cab_Burge] #2250956
02/10/17 11:44 AM
02/10/17 11:44 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Try the Stant brand of the 440 motor home thermostats scope
They are super high flow, I use the 160 F in my street cars that I run a thermostat in, I drill two .125 inch holes in the outer flange to let air out to help fill the motors up initially instead of waiting for the thermostat to open up to finish filling the cooling system up


I would like to try one. Got a part number?


Master, again and still
Re: Hemi block to head cooling passage question [Re: DaveRS23] #2251082
02/10/17 03:59 PM
02/10/17 03:59 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I don't, sorry shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)






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