Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: mopar dave]
#2248825
02/06/17 11:40 PM
02/06/17 11:40 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 621 Deep DEEP SOUTH
LAD 524
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 621
Deep DEEP SOUTH
|
OEM dual fan setups often just turn on the one fan at a certain temp, and when under hi load, AC on, hot weather, towing etc will turn on the other to rapidly pull heat from the rad/system. For our cars, its the idle temps that usually are the issue, this is where the right elec fans shine. If elec fans were crap - OEMs would not use them. They have already spent a fortune doing the R&D, the secret is to adapt the right ones, wire them correctly and make sure the Alt has enough beans to keep the system topped up. In other words match your parts so that they work as a system
Last edited by LAD 524; 02/06/17 11:41 PM.
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: mopar dave]
#2248873
02/07/17 01:00 AM
02/07/17 01:00 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,674 Wichita
GY3
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,674
Wichita
|
Oh yeah, forgot, I use a 440Source wp pulley and a Moroso underdrive pulley on the crank was worried about it with the underdrive pully but no problem on even the hottest days!
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: DrCharles]
#2248925
02/07/17 02:31 AM
02/07/17 02:31 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
yeah, the electric freed up a couple of horsepower, but what good is that when you're stuck in a traffic jam, or hot lapping, and the temp is ratcheting upward? i'll gladly trade 10 hp for stonewall reliability. The electric fan moves the same amount of air whether idling or high rpm. However, the mechanical fan is moving MUCH less air at idle, which is exactly when you need it the most. Fan clutches help by slipping at higher rpm but now there's another source of reliability problems. What kind of "hot lapping" are you referring to?Any time the car is moving over about 20 mph the fan only gets in the way. If you're overheating while moving, either the airflow through the core is insufficient, or you don't have enough radiator. The type of fan won't matter here. Finally, it's not "a couple" or even "10 hp", didn't you see the fan test article (and other similar tests)? Would you gladly give up 30 or 40 hp? Those #'s are "SLIGHTLY" high - IMO. I won't quote any numbers, but most electric fans actually run slower at idle and how much slower will depend on just how much your alternator is up to the task at idle, where it supplies much less current. A flex fan actually works just the opposite from your explanation. There is much less HP loss at speed ( higher rpm's ) where the blades flatten out -( reads "FLEX" fan). No one on this site really cares what the HP loss is at idle. They're just concerned with cooling. And as I said, todays cars are designed from the ground up for electric fans. They have well over 100 amp alternators with a very fast current rise curve ( very small pulleys, serpentine belt driven ) and they are cooling sewing machine motors that seldom see 5K rpm. - Apples and oranges. Flex fans don't use ( or need ) a fan clutch. Stick with your Doctor's hat.
Last edited by Crizila; 02/07/17 02:34 AM.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: mopar dave]
#2248944
02/07/17 03:10 AM
02/07/17 03:10 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
I've run flex-fans on a few cars, all with good success. I've read the horror stories, but never had an issue nor ever met anyone who had one come apart. My current setup is a summit 7-blade flex fan and a homemade aluminum shroud on a summit radiator. Water pump and housing are 440-source units, and I run a 160 stat. My car stays nice & cool on the street, and is generally plenty cooled down by the time I get back to the pits after a run. Just last year my buddies chevelle started getting real hot between runs at the track one day. We thrashed between rounds to find that electric water pump relay had crapped out. We had to bypass it. Turned out okay , but he almost missed a call. I know the OP is about fans, not pumps, but my point is I like simple & reliable.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: DrCharles]
#2249139
02/07/17 03:45 PM
02/07/17 03:45 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080 organ
maximum entropy
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
|
yeah, the electric freed up a couple of horsepower, but what good is that when you're stuck in a traffic jam, or hot lapping, and the temp is ratcheting upward? i'll gladly trade 10 hp for stonewall reliability. The electric fan moves the same amount of air whether idling or high rpm. However, the mechanical fan is moving MUCH less air at idle, which is exactly when you need it the most. Fan clutches help by slipping at higher rpm but now there's another source of reliability problems. What kind of "hot lapping" are you referring to?Any time the car is moving over about 20 mph the fan only gets in the way. If you're overheating while moving, either the airflow through the core is insufficient, or you don't have enough radiator. The type of fan won't matter here. Finally, it's not "a couple" or even "10 hp", didn't you see the fan test article (and other similar tests)? Would you gladly give up 30 or 40 hp? which makes sense in theory, BUT, that fan speed, and type, make all the difference. my fan, at idle, pulls MUCH more air than all the electrics i tried. my combination didn't work until i bumped the fan/water pump speed up. it only took a little. i ran before/after at the track, and it ran EXACTLY the same e.t., regardless of which fan i ran. i did try a 7 blade, and it did slow about a half a tenth. it didn't run any cooler. as far as my definition of "hot lap", it was a 100 degree plus day at my home track in central oregon. i had gon out in the first round, so i bought into the "gamblers" bracket, which i won, because the last two opponents were unable to make it to the line. i made three passes in 10 minutes. THAT IS HOT LAPPING, methinks. flame on... i can take it...
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2249143
02/07/17 03:51 PM
02/07/17 03:51 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
I've run flex-fans on a few cars, all with good success. I've read the horror stories, but never had an issue nor ever met anyone who had one come apart. My current setup is a summit 7-blade flex fan and a homemade aluminum shroud on a summit radiator. Water pump and housing are 440-source units, and I run a 160 stat. My car stays nice & cool on the street, and is generally plenty cooled down by the time I get back to the pits after a run. Just last year my buddies chevelle started getting real hot between runs at the track one day. We thrashed between rounds to find that electric water pump relay had crapped out. We had to bypass it. Turned out okay , but he almost missed a call. I know the OP is about fans, not pumps, but my point is I like simple & reliable. Making use of the vacuum advance could also help in keeping it cool on the street.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: maximum entropy]
#2249149
02/07/17 04:10 PM
02/07/17 04:10 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Most guys try and save a bit of HP by slowing the WP down. I'd rather run it a bit faster. I run my at 6% faster than OE.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: Crizila]
#2249363
02/07/17 10:32 PM
02/07/17 10:32 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
|
Those #'s are "SLIGHTLY" high - IMO. I won't quote any numbers, but most electric fans actually run slower at idle and how much slower will depend on just how much your alternator is up to the task at idle, where it supplies much less current. A flex fan actually works just the opposite from your explanation. There is much less HP loss at speed ( higher rpm's ) where the blades flatten out -( reads "FLEX" fan). Yes, if you have a properly designed electrical system, it won't slow down. That only happens when your alt can't keep up with the demand and maintain 14 volts. And once again, a flex fan takes less but not "much less". The flex fan, especially without a clutch, consumes a lot more hp at high rpm than you think. Look at the tables. Stick with your Doctor's hat. You can stuff that attitude. I may not be as much of an old-timer as you (built my first big-block A-body around '83) but I know what works and what doesn't.
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: DrCharles]
#2249384
02/07/17 11:10 PM
02/07/17 11:10 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Those #'s are "SLIGHTLY" high - IMO. I won't quote any numbers, but most electric fans actually run slower at idle and how much slower will depend on just how much your alternator is up to the task at idle, where it supplies much less current. A flex fan actually works just the opposite from your explanation. There is much less HP loss at speed ( higher rpm's ) where the blades flatten out -( reads "FLEX" fan). Yes, if you have a properly designed electrical system, it won't slow down. That only happens when your alt can't keep up with the demand and maintain 14 volts. And once again, a flex fan takes less but not "much less". The flex fan, especially without a clutch, consumes a lot more hp at high rpm than you think. Look at the tables. Stick with your Doctor's hat. You can stuff that attitude. I may not be as much of an old-timer as you (built my first big-block A-body around '83) but I know what works and what doesn't.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: Crizila]
#2250059
02/09/17 12:26 AM
02/09/17 12:26 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
I've run flex-fans on a few cars, all with good success. I've read the horror stories, but never had an issue nor ever met anyone who had one come apart. My current setup is a summit 7-blade flex fan and a homemade aluminum shroud on a summit radiator. Water pump and housing are 440-source units, and I run a 160 stat. My car stays nice & cool on the street, and is generally plenty cooled down by the time I get back to the pits after a run. Just last year my buddies chevelle started getting real hot between runs at the track one day. We thrashed between rounds to find that electric water pump relay had crapped out. We had to bypass it. Turned out okay , but he almost missed a call. I know the OP is about fans, not pumps, but my point is I like simple & reliable. Making use of the vacuum advance could also help in keeping it cool on the street. Picture is current as it sits (on jackstands with all sorts of things unhooked). New HP carb doesn't have provisions for vacuum advance. I'll have to plug it, just haven't plugged it yet.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: mechanical fan vs electric
[Re: mopar dave]
#2250062
02/09/17 12:30 AM
02/09/17 12:30 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
I agree with you. I'm gonna need a upper hose just like the one in the pic. original # part? I've had it for years, don't have the part number handy. All I did was go to the local Napa, and start rifling through all of their hoses until I found one that I though would work. Had to get a sleeve to step down the size of the radiator side.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
|
|