Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2245851
02/02/17 01:07 PM
02/02/17 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,686 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,686
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I think it will lower the CD of anything and possibly help reduce lift on the rear, but I don't know what speed draws the line on NEEDING one.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2245959
02/02/17 04:07 PM
02/02/17 04:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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If the car gets light, sensitive, on the steering inputs or feels like the front end is floating around the last 300 or so you need more down force My 1971 Duster ran 134. MP in the 1/4 mile and it was stock front and rear with a slight nose down stance, no issues at that speed My new car, 1970 Cuda, runs a 147. MPH in the quarter and it has a wing on the tail behind the deck lid with zero angle in relation to the ground and it doesn't move around or feel like it is floating. It has no front rake angle at all, it is almost tail down I didn't build the car( coil over suspension, front and rear) and there is no way to raise the rear without redoing the 4 link mounts, which I'm not going to do as long as there are no issues with the handling Fix it if it is needed, don't if not
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2246051
02/02/17 06:50 PM
02/02/17 06:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What I have learned from the track and the wind tunnel guys is this... the deck lid on the car is the big factor.. if its longer then it will have more down force.. on my car with 135 MPH was a breaking point... the back of the car would start to lift and I couldnt put ANY steering into it to be stable.. I lost control at 135 with a quartering headwind... after I made it back to the trailer I put the car away... on Monday I talked to the wind tunnel guys and seen smoke footage of my ride.. the air was dumping down about 1 foot past the tail end... after 2 designs I came up with a rear spoiler/wing with a few degrees of angle on it.... it was day and night different and drove GREAT.. plus picked up 3 MPH... this has 5 spill plates(so air doesnt slide off the ends)
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: jcc]
#2246105
02/02/17 08:48 PM
02/02/17 08:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 814 in front of the computer
80arrow
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 814
in front of the computer
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To keep everyone on the same page, a couple points should be kept in mind, a "wing" has air flowing over and below, a "spoiler" on the rear of a car only has air above it, with the intention of "spoiling" air flow, causing an air pressure build up in front of it, ie DF. Both solutions require air flow, a wing is easier to elevate into better air flow. A proper wing usually can offer much less induced drag for the DF achieved. It is nearly impossible to achieve a great aero solution right out of the gate, without testing/tuning. And "EVERYTHING effects everything else" on a race car. PS, the lowest speed that most rear wings/spoiler can be measured for effect begins at around 40mph, the effect is however very minimal, but its there, and greatly increases with increases of speed. The SAE cars depend on this. I'm thinking spoiler then, not a wing, on the back. And a Camaro chin spoiler on the front.
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2246108
02/02/17 08:51 PM
02/02/17 08:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 814 in front of the computer
80arrow
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 814
in front of the computer
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What I have learned from the track and the wind tunnel guys is this... the deck lid on the car is the big factor.. if its longer then it will have more down force.. on my car with 135 MPH was a breaking point... the back of the car would start to lift and I couldnt put ANY steering into it to be stable.. I lost control at 135 with a quartering headwind... after I made it back to the trailer I put the car away... on Monday I talked to the wind tunnel guys and seen smoke footage of my ride.. the air was dumping down about 1 foot past the tail end... after 2 designs I came up with a rear spoiler/wing with a few degrees of angle on it.... it was day and night different and drove GREAT.. plus picked up 3 MPH... this has 5 spill plates(so air doesnt slide off the ends) That looks great. If I could pick up 3 mph with a rear spoiler I'd do it for sure.
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2246114
02/02/17 09:02 PM
02/02/17 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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What I have learned from the track and the wind tunnel guys is this... the deck lid on the car is the big factor.. if its longer then it will have more down force.. on my car with 135 MPH was a breaking point... the back of the car would start to lift and I couldnt put ANY steering into it to be stable.. I lost control at 135 with a quartering headwind... after I made it back to the trailer I put the car away... on Monday I talked to the wind tunnel guys and seen smoke footage of my ride.. the air was dumping down about 1 foot past the tail end... after 2 designs I came up with a rear spoiler/wing with a few degrees of angle on it.... it was day and night different and drove GREAT.. plus picked up 3 MPH... this has 5 spill plates(so air doesnt slide off the ends) That looks great. If I could pick up 3 mph with a rear spoiler I'd do it for sure. Just make sure it has at least spill plates at the ends or yo will loose a lot of effect
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2246145
02/02/17 10:07 PM
02/02/17 10:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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I forgot to mention that the Cuda does not have a front spoiler, the car had a blown B1 motor on alcohol in it that ran in the mid 7.80a at 184+MPH according to the former owner, that is the reason for the rear spoiler on the car. I removed the parachute and the 72 inch long wheelie bars from it so it fits in my trailer better.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2246176
02/02/17 11:03 PM
02/02/17 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,213
New York
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A wing or spoiler always increases cd and drag. Although it may be in the car's aero "shadow" (frontal cross-section) it's also generally more frontal area since it's partially in clean air. More nose down angle = more down-force and drag. The effect is also highly dependent on deck lid size and shape, height of the wing, etc. Depending on the back light shape, sometimes a wing won't work at all until it reaches a certain height. A actual airfoil has more down-force per lb. of drag than a simple flat plate, but of course slightly heavier and $$. The spill plate is also an important safety feature. If the car yaws at speed ("fishtail") the spoiler becomes effectively shorter, and down-force falls off resulting in oversteer. The plates help keep the air on the "foil" part. What's difficult to plan or estimate is the relative effect of front vs. rear devices. If they don't have the same proportion of down-force and work at the same speeds the front-vs-rear balance will change as speed increases.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Question on rear wing
[Re: 80arrow]
#2246192
02/02/17 11:25 PM
02/02/17 11:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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My Dart is rock steady and easy to drive at 150+,no wing. Every body style will react differently.ask around about your body style. My Dart has a lot of rear deck lid area, which I think is a good part of the excelent handling.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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