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Low oil pressure on rebuild #2235610
01/16/17 09:38 PM
01/16/17 09:38 PM
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Florida
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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I have a 440 that I had rebuilt by a local guy...now a 505.
Other modifications from stock:
It's got a hydraulic roller cam with COMP lifters and PRW 1.6 bushed (not roller) rockers.
I put a new, standard (not high volume or high pressure) oil pump on it.

WHen it's cold, it's got about 50psi at idle, which does NOT change as you rev the motor.
After it's all warmed up and I've driven it around the block a few times, it's got 15psi at idle and will go up to about 40 psi by about 2500 rpm and then go no higher with higher RPMs.

I bought a cheap mechanical gauge to double check my electric gauge, and am getting identical numbers.
I also shimmed up the pressure relief spring and it made no difference.

What else should I be doing or checking before I pull the engine out to check the bearing clearances (which I am hoping is not the problem)?

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235614
01/16/17 09:44 PM
01/16/17 09:44 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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You need a high volume pump. Some will say that's a Band-Aid but if it improves the pressure.............


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Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235628
01/16/17 10:04 PM
01/16/17 10:04 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Before taking it apart? Cut the oil filter open for inspection. Oil an ultra light viscosity? HV pump. Ask the guy what clearances he used.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: John_Kunkel] #2235634
01/16/17 10:18 PM
01/16/17 10:18 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By John_Kunkel

You need a high volume pump. Some will say that's a Band-Aid but if it improves the pressure.............


I agree, but we don't know the clearances or what grade oil the OP is using.

It would be good to know that.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235638
01/16/17 10:19 PM
01/16/17 10:19 PM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Try a Melling HV pump.


[image][/image]
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235641
01/16/17 10:22 PM
01/16/17 10:22 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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First ask the builder for the clearance specs
then cut the filter open and see whats in there
then I would ask what oil is in it... if its
10W30 or better put a high volume pump on it..
if it has 10w40 in it you should see 70 psi
priming it with a 1/2" drill motor...super loose
clearances will show low pressure.. make sure
the pressure relief valve is tight
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 01/16/17 10:24 PM.
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: madscientist] #2235646
01/16/17 10:29 PM
01/16/17 10:29 PM
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Florida
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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I am using 10/30 oil. Forgot to mention that. I know it's light, but wasn't sure if that alone would explain such low psi.
He said that 'it's pretty tight' and that I should start with 10/30. I have a sheet with the numbers on it somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. But they were pretty tight and I want to say they were in the .002x range.

One thing I noticed about the rockers, is that when I primed the oil pump, I had the oil filler cap off. Oil from the rocker right under that hole went SHOOTING waaayy out over the fender and on the ground. never saw anything like that on any other motors I ave primed, but have never built a motor with shaft mounted rockers before.

Come to think of it, that is one more thing I think I need to check...pull the oil cap with the engine running and see if there is a crazy amount of oil coming out.

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235650
01/16/17 10:35 PM
01/16/17 10:35 PM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Rocker shafts should have timed oiling from the #4 cam bearing. If someone grooved the bearing or cam journal, you might have too much oil feeding the shafts. Might need block restrictors.


[image][/image]
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235654
01/16/17 10:44 PM
01/16/17 10:44 PM
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Florida
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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I should mention that I got a short block from the builder. I put the valve train in. So if there are any rooky mistakes that could be made, please let me know because I could have made them!

Thanks for the help, guys.

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235661
01/16/17 11:01 PM
01/16/17 11:01 PM
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Did you put the rocker shaft on with the oil
holes facing downward.. thats the load side
and the way the factory does it.. there is a
direction the oils should face but I dont know
for a BB if thats inward or outward on the bottom
but on factory shafts the "notch" was facing forward
with the holes down.. the notch is on the front of the
shafts them self... but it sounds like the flow is there
to spray across the fender.. I've never had that happen
even with 70psi so the shafts could be on wrong
wave

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235671
01/16/17 11:14 PM
01/16/17 11:14 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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if it's a roller cam is it likely the cam journal is grooved for full time oil to the rockers??

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235677
01/16/17 11:23 PM
01/16/17 11:23 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
One thing I noticed about the rockers, is that when I primed the oil pump, I had the oil filler cap off. Oil from the rocker right under that hole went SHOOTING waaayy out over the fender and on the ground. never saw anything like that on any other motors I ave primed, but have never built a motor with shaft mounted rockers before.
the problem is right there. undo it & see what's up. Keep us posted.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235680
01/16/17 11:28 PM
01/16/17 11:28 PM
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Minnesota
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The first thing to try is easy and free, you have nothing to lose and it often solves the issue. Add a washer under the oil pressure relief spring in the oil pump cover.


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Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: RapidRobert] #2235682
01/16/17 11:31 PM
01/16/17 11:31 PM
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Quote:
One thing I noticed about the rockers, is that when I primed the oil pump, I had the oil filler cap off. Oil from the rocker right under that hole went SHOOTING waaayy out over the fender and on the ground. never saw anything like that on any other motors I ave primed, but have never built a motor with shaft mounted rockers before.
the problem is right there. undo it & see what's up. Keep us posted.


OK, I am going to flip the shafts and see what happens.

I was also thinking of just putting the factory shafts and rockers on temporarily to just see if there is an improvement.
The cam has .550 lift and I have beehive springs, so I think they should work in the short term and low rpms? Just to eliminate one variable...

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2235683
01/16/17 11:32 PM
01/16/17 11:32 PM
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
The first thing to try is easy and free, you have nothing to lose and it often solves the issue. Add a washer under the oil pressure relief spring in the oil pump cover.


Yeah, I tried that (actually added a few just to see what would happen.) It did not seem to make any difference.

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235684
01/16/17 11:34 PM
01/16/17 11:34 PM
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Interceptor72
Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
The first thing to try is easy and free, you have nothing to lose and it often solves the issue. Add a washer under the oil pressure relief spring in the oil pump cover.


Yeah, I tried that (actually added a few just to see what would happen.) It did not seem to make any difference.


If you shimmed the pressure relief and the pressure didn't go up with RPM there is a oil gallery plug missing, or some other giant leak.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: krautrock] #2235685
01/16/17 11:34 PM
01/16/17 11:34 PM
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Florida
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Interceptor72 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By krautrock
if it's a roller cam is it likely the cam journal is grooved for full time oil to the rockers??


Not that I recall.

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235689
01/16/17 11:39 PM
01/16/17 11:39 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I was also thinking of just putting the factory shafts and rockers on temporarily to just see if there is an improvement.
Good plan, I would drill prime it (CCW) as is right now with a variable speed drill/5/16 hex rod with the valve covers off & no way you wont see where the leak is with a geyser of that magnitude.


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Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: madscientist] #2235693
01/16/17 11:45 PM
01/16/17 11:45 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Interceptor72
Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
The first thing to try is easy and free, you have nothing to lose and it often solves the issue. Add a washer under the oil pressure relief spring in the oil pump cover.


Yeah, I tried that (actually added a few just to see what would happen.) It did not seem to make any difference.


If you shimmed the pressure relief and the pressure didn't go up with RPM there is a oil gallery plug missing, or some other giant leak.


This is what I'm starting to think
wave

Re: Low oil pressure on rebuild [Re: Interceptor72] #2235696
01/16/17 11:50 PM
01/16/17 11:50 PM
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Minnesota
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I doubt he'd see 40 psi with a gallery plug out using a stock pump. That's a gigantic leak! But yes, some leakage somewhere.

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