Just a couple of quick comments. Regarding the Gear Vendors option, the .78 OD isn't much compared to most Tremecs, but most of them go in automatic trans cars and they were concerned about people with high stall converters and overheating if they used much more OD. I would also be concerned about the fact that a 727 with a Gear Vendors is going to result in a pretty long transmission which in turn results in a pretty short drivshaft which will create some pretty interesting driveline angles as the rear axle moves up and down if it's installed in a short wheelbase car eg. "A" or "E" bodies. As for the TKO being hard to shift at high rpm, I suppose that depends on your definition of high rpm. I've always shifted the 'Cuda at 6,200 rpm with the limiter being set at 6,600 rpm [ maybe that's why I finally hurt the # 6 rod bearing on my 300,000 plus miles production 360 rods ]. In any case I never had any issues with clutch hang up or refusing to go in gear. I have no experience with any of the 6 speed Tremecs, but lots of Mustang people with modified high output & high rpm 5.0's use them in place of the factory MT82. I am pretty sure Ford also used them in the GT500 cars and I know they use some version of it in the current Shelby GT 350 with it's 8,250 rpm 526 HP flat crank engine so I suppose they must not shift too badly. Unfortunately it is a pretty bulky piece and as has been noted isn't the easiest to get to fit in the rather confined space on our Mopars. IF you have the necessary fabrication skills [ or the money to pay someone who does ] the 6 speed is probably the best way to go. Also since they are production transmissions, parts should be readily available for some time to come.

The Magnum does not "bolt in" to any of these cars. Pretty significant floor and torsion bar crossmember modifications are required, which is the biggest entry barrier for most.

I bought my stuff from Silver Sport Transmissions.

TKO-600 w/.64 here

69 Dart stroked small block
iron heads,RPM intake,253@050 solid cam
4.30 gears,28inch tire

If is was going to do it again.I think
I would go with the .82

A couple years back,I had a smaller cam
with a 3.91 gear.I think the 4.30's are
a better combo.

In the springtime come up to Parma
you can drive it.

Mike

Oh I know that, I used the wrong wording, I'm simply trying to find out where to buy this trans complete lol. Thanks for the answer, appreciated.

I sold my TKO600 and will replace with either a 4sp OD or T56 magnum.
The Silver Sport kit is expensive plus you have to buy a Quicktime bell and hyd clutch setup. Not sure it is worth it. One nice thing about the Silver Sport kit is you don't have to fab a new torsion bar cross-member but still lots of cutting.

Now that's the coolest thing I've read all winter! I might have to come check it out.

5spcuda, if I go with a gearvendors I will go with the shorty version from SMR, and if I go with a Turbo400 there's an option that is either 4 or 8 inches shorter than a 727 shorty. So with those options I'm not worried about the driveshaft length.

I was leaning towards the Tremec 5speed because I used to own a supercharged mustang with a cobra 6speed and I honestly had a hard time getting used to it, almost seemed like there was too many gears close together so I wasn't real confident driving it hard for fear of jamming it into the wrong gear. More seat time would have helped but I quickly sold that car due to the fact that I really missed my old carbureted big block mopars with brute torque.
If remember what I read correctly, the Tremec 5speed can handle 600 ft/lb and the Tremec 6speed can handle 700 ft/lb.

I'm glad to hear that your Tremec 5speed works flawlessly, makes me wonder why so many people have problems driving theirs hard. I know that if I spend all that money on a new one it darn sure better work right without having to be babied.

What didn't you like about the TKO600?

A QuickTime bell is an easy sell for me, I like my legs.

I don't use a Tremec mostly because I do not like the feel of how it shifts.

Never tried a no lift speed shift with one.

But I do like the feel of a fresh A833 with a fresh shifter and it will handle a no lift speed shift just fine.

How much HP and torque can an A833 handle?

Ask Ronnie Sox

I've done quite a few Tremec installs in Mopars A,B and E bodies, a few Fords and a handful of Chevies the last 15+ years, and yes the aftermarket kits and components have improved dramatically over that time as well, I generally prefer the TKO 600 with a .64 OD if your looking to run 3:90+ rear gears and a 26-28" tire

early issues with most of the aftermarket kits were driveline angle (and can still be depending on the application) and 1 st Generation shift towers regardless of the kit supplier, plus add to the equation some owners hesitant/refusing to mod the floor and or trim away excess ribs on the TKO case to achieve a proper driveline angle...plus add in the fact most "home" and some shop installers lacked the proper tools/skill sets to dial in a bellhousing, or check driveline angles, and or confirm machined/assembly specs, and parts/components supplied to be correct for their application...I worked on a few owner/shop installed applications to sort them out for customers, and generally installation error, or a lack of understanding how the components were to be installed were the biggest errors that led to difficult shifting, or clutch engage/disengagement issues, or total transmission failure in some cases, if you've been on Moparts long enough, or search TKO threads you'll see that I usually respond with an answer or solution to most of the issues that arise...I'm the last one that wants junk in my rides, I wouldn't use or endorse a TKO install if I thought it was junk, after decades of owning 833 equipped cars there's no way I'd ever go back to driving them after having a TKO 5spd properly set up behind a smblk, Bblk or HEMI car

If you do decide on a TKO, I'd start with a TKO600, a .64 OD based on the gear choice you intend to use (4:10) and a hydraulic throw out bearing if the added expense is doable, mechanical is fine as well if you properly set it up, going mechanical tends to involve correcting misalignment issues and modifying linkage components to fit and operate as needed, the hyd TOB's on the other hand eliminate a lot of hassles and offer much better pedal effort and control if set up properly

If you go the TKO route decide early on if the TKO needs to be modded for your needs, a faceplated TKO is much like driving a factory 833/4 spd (like driving a truck IMHO), if high (6K+) RPM shifts are your intended usage, then have carbon fiber syncros installed as the stock Tremec bronze syncros will limit you to 5000-5500 rpm shift usage...

Clutch choice is again open to your intended usage, personally I prefer the Sachs Borg/Beck 3 finger design for street/strip/road course use, Kevlar single disc, with cover pressure in the 2800 or 3400 lbs rating (these are getting near impossible to find though and often brutal on the hyd TOB) I've done a few installs with dual discs (not a fan) and single disc diaphram set ups, but if you decide to drag the car with a diaphram set up, the Spec Stage 3 is the way to go, but can be rather spendy

As far as sources for these kits, you have American Power Train (APT), and currently SST/Silver Sport Transmissions (former Keisler operation), either one can supply you a quality unit/service, but personally I'd go with SST as the product line is further developed and more options/choices are available to individualize your application, If you decide to go SST for a TKO or even a T56, contact Jeff Kauffman at SST, he'll steer you to what best suits your intended application and usage...

I will add that 5spd installs have become sort of "old school" over the last few years (but still much better than driving a 1:1 final drive ratio), and the T56 is a much better choice if decided upon esp with the .50 OD choice, but you are looking at mandatory floor and torsion bar crossmember modifications with the T56, and again the T56 kits have improved dramatically as well

Mike

I didn't like the way it shifted. TKOs are not the smoothest shifting tranny to begin with. Then you add the additional offset linkage for an e-body it makes it that much worse.
Also, the only way to get the headers(2"TTIs) level meant cutting the cross-member which I am ok with but not for a TKO. For a T56 magnum or a Gforce GF5R? Yes.

I did like the way the gearing worked out for what I use my car for. I had the .82OD with 3.33 rear gears.
I had 5 usable gears since 1st was not a granny gear.
Also, driveshaft speed is lower.
TKO never gave me any problems: no vibrations,leaks, etc

It is not that I am against having my legs but the QuickTime bell requires hyd T/O bearing. Can't use existing linkage so it adds additional expense to an expensive swap. Also, I prefer the clutch master and slave design compared to the hyd T/O bearing if you can't run linkage.

I heard so many horror stories of the hydraulic TO bearings leaking, I decided to go with an external slave.

Since we made the jump to T56 discussions... I was trying to limit my initial reply to TKO because that's what was asked.

I dialed in my bell on the TKO. used a Lakewood bell, and a hydraulic clutch. Only time it shifted nice was when I drove like a grandma.

I used a T56 on the next ride. QuickTime bell, hybrid hydraulic clutch using OEM parts. Didn't have to correct bell runout at all. Result is night and day difference from a TKO. the T56 I'm using came out of an 06 Viper. I would strongly advocate the T56 over a TKO...even though the same company makes both. The only issue is the size of the T56 will not fit into classic iron without sheet metal mods.


So, a strong 5-spd OD trans that is very picky on install, needs set-up like open heart surgery, picky about clutch used, etc, or a strong 6 speed that accepts production line sloppiness, doesn't care about style of clutch used...

One can fit with minimal sheet metal mods, the other requires surgery.

External slave is nice if you have the room for it, surely the way to go, but most applications are going to use the internal hyd TOB because it's a basic install that fits a wide variety of applications, I myself have only grenaded 1 hyd TOB in the last 15+ years, but it was being used behind a non recommended pressure plate, had about 40K in mileage on it, numerous track runs, plus at the time it went I was power shifting at around 5500-6000 RPM but I still drove the car home with no clutch (not fun!) and with some light throttle application could coax the TKO in and out of gear without the clutch in traffic...

I've found that of the hyd TOB that leaked, or failed on other's vehicles was a result of over extending the travel of the unit, basically a result of not having the proper stack assy height to limit the travel of the TOB, seems a common issue on most forum discussions regardless of the kit supplier...

Mike

Dayclona, thanks for all the info, I'll read through it several times so it all sets in. If I end up going this route I will definitely make sure someone is helping me that knows what they're doing. I want it setup correctly and I'm definitely not afraid to cut up the floor to get driveline angles correct.
Thanks again!

70Cuda383, you guys are welcome to discuss any trans, I have no idea which one is best for me. Basically I just want to be able to run 10's at the track with about 600hp and be able to throw it into 5th gear on the drive home.

I don't know anything about the maintenance of these manual transmissions either, as far as how long the clutch will last and everything else.

Maintenance wise, either TKO or T56 is the same. As far as I know, neither trans has any longevity issues as far as eating bearings, etc. clutch life will depend on your use. Do you slip it a lot off the line to keep RPM up in the power band on launch? Is your linkage or hydraulics set up properly? Syncro life will also depend on a properly set up clutch especially if power shifting.

I like the T56 because almost every late model muscle/sports car is using it or the updated TR6060. So it has the reliability OEMs require. Hydraulics can be put together using off the shelf OEM parts, which again, meet OEM longevity issues. Mine is in a Dakota. I'm using a stock Dakota master, and a stock viper hyd. TO bearing. My T56 shifts way better than the TKO in the last Dakota I built. But on the flip side, my trans tunnel is big enough for the much larger 46RE OD Auto. The T56 fits fine. Putting one where a 727 was before can be tricky because of the much smaller tailshaft housing of a non-OD trans. That's where the TKO has an advantage. Gerko enterprises can get you everything needed to fit a TKO without surgery. Not the case with a T56. That's where you have to decide if you're willing to build a custom floor pan or not.