Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2229922
01/08/17 11:25 AM
01/08/17 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,551 Massachusetts
NortheastMopar
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,551
Massachusetts
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A long time ago I researched the cars in depth. As I understand the information: When the AAR's & T/A's were announced by Chrysler to the dealers the dealers were told you are getting X number of cars. The # of cars was supposed to be based on the volume of the dealer. They were also given the option to order as well and there are some ordered cars out there. The number of cars produced - 2500 per Dodge & Plymouth was established by SCCA homologation rules. I do not remember reading in the documents about colored roofs or vinyl tops or colors period. I will look again at the rules at some point, but not right now.
The AAR order form was stamped "AAR" in large letters. As I mentioned, my thoughts are based on a few pieces of info I acquired regarding the black painted top on the 77 car. The info came from John Harkness who was actually there. My second thought was that it was clear that the 2500 cars that were sold to the public had to be available with all the options that the 77 car had available, which (now this is an assumption) includes the factory paint colors? My next assumption is that Chrysler had to add the V02 option to the T/A to cover the black painted roof on the 77 car. I guess I am looking for proof that the AAR cars also had two tone paint so I can put my assumptions to sleep. However, I have not as yet found a two tone AAR or an order sheet that says it could be ordered with the V02 option?? I guess if there is one sunroof T/A than there might be only 3 painted top T/A challengers? By why no AAR's? I really don't lose sleep over this, but it comes up every now and then and I try to get some answers every now and then hoping somebody might have found some new info on this subject. Barry, does your car have a sunroof?
Last edited by NortheastMopar; 01/08/17 11:26 AM.
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Little Detroit]
#2229937
01/08/17 12:10 PM
01/08/17 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657
Hamtramck, PA
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the options that the 77 car had available, The race cars did not have any options, no fender tags or broadcast sheets for bodies in white. They were delivered as a bare tub. The AARs did have fewer optional available than the T/As. Rallye wheels standard with no other wheel being optional. Black vinyl top only, no white, green or Gator tops like Challengers. Manual or fast ratio steering only, no regular PS like the Challenger. T/As had more options available, it is just that simple. The Dodge line has always been more upscale than the Plymouth line.
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Little Detroit]
#2229940
01/08/17 12:14 PM
01/08/17 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
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Fluffy Balladeer
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Hamtramck, PA
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Chrysler had to add the V02 option to the T/A It has been mentioned above, 2 or 3 times; The V02 option was not added to the T/As option list, it was available on all Challengers from the start of the 1970 model year on any 1970 Challengers that could be had with a painted roof. (No V02 on Convertibles or SE models for the obvious reasons)
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#2229988
01/08/17 01:13 PM
01/08/17 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,551 Massachusetts
NortheastMopar
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
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Massachusetts
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On the race car, it does have a black painted top, but the factory V02 cars also had molding at the rear to cover the mask line.
It was never a 'real' factory V02 car. Makes Sense. Looking at the pre-order sheet fir the T/A are all the options that are blacked out not available on the T/A, correct? So, yes, I see the V02 option as being available. I would love to see a pre-order sheet for the Plymouth line AAR. Maybe they did not make one?? At any rate, I guess at this point, I am of the understanding that my V02 along with the two others you know of are just as Gelen stated rare optioned cars? I have just always thought it to be odd why so many black vinyl top cars and so few of the painted top cars. Vinyl tops have always been a more formal option in my opinion, but who knows at this point. I guess you can also wonder who would order a sunroof in a car that looks like a racecar? I was also surprised to find that C15 deluxe seat belt package on my fender tag. Another rare one in a T/A? And I guess that the story John Harkness or autodynamics told me is probably true regarding Sam Posey telling them to send the car back and have the top painted black. Maybe I was just reading into these stories too much. I only wished my car came with a build sheet so I could have seen where it was sold through? Registry in Mass said it is too far back to find it even if it were born in a Massachusetts Dealer.
Last edited by NortheastMopar; 01/08/17 01:17 PM.
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: NortheastMopar]
#2230004
01/08/17 01:36 PM
01/08/17 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657
Hamtramck, PA
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I only wished my car came with a build sheet so I could have seen where it was sold through? There is not any dealership information on broadcast sheets.
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Little Detroit]
#2230731
01/09/17 12:36 PM
01/09/17 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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You have forgotten the real scenario, most of these cars were beat like rented mules and the engine simply gave up due to over revving and abuse. I know mine was street raced with a vengeance and it is by no means an except. There was nothing "wrong" with the engines that would call for mass failure, they were just driven hard. If you take in account they all came with 3.55 or 3.91 gears, had 26 or so tall tires and half of them being automatic 60 MPH is 3000+ RPMs, do you think many people drove these cars 60 MPH when taking any amount of trip? The other half was 4 speeds and of course I know no one ever drove those aggressively or ever missed a shift. I would say if you look at any segment of muscle cars there are no more original engine cars in any line or model than in the AAR/TA cars for the above reasons, most just don't seek out a special block cause they were just blocks were as the TA block was a specific block, add to that that the TA block had a very limited available so a lot of the ones out there were service blocks or Duster blocks. I think you ran across a pure coincidence and you are trying to add a back story to substantiate it. The back story is these motors got popped in a high number and a high number of people went to the troubled of finding a service TA block to put back in them. End of story. On Jeff's sit there is a list of AAR VIN and SPD but not engine numbers info. On the ordering question, so what I understood was correct, the majority of these cars were "factory spec" built cars just sent to the dealers. The part about turn to earn has been part of the car business since I have been in it even to today so not surprising that they were allocated by sales volume back then as well.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Little Detroit]
#2230949
01/09/17 06:07 PM
01/09/17 06:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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You're very diplomatic and I appreciate that in all seriousness. As I pointed out very early in this thread, my car would fall exactly into your scenario and time frame, the only difference with mine and the 3 you have found is we know the back story without question. Yes, opinion but based on known/accepted history, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. There are many numbers engine cars in that same time so strange that only these were built with no VIN blocks. As for all the blocks have the same casting dates, I think it was mentioned earlier (or maybe another thread) that engine were only cast certain days and a bulk supply was cast on that day and then used later. With a limited usage block such as a TA block there are only so many casting dates that are possible, not sure the exact number of different dates but I cant imagine over a few so odds are up for them having the same date. I have nothing to support this but I would bet as much as 50% of these cars experienced an engine failure of outside influence and although some were warrantied not all were and most of the warranty ones I have heard of didn't get the TA block anyway. The tracking down of the replacement TA block in my thought may have happened years later or in a customer pay scenario.
Anyway, I've said my peace and will leave it at that.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#2230976
01/09/17 06:36 PM
01/09/17 06:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,657
Hamtramck, PA
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If you go back to the first page of this post, I answered your question. This one stands out though; 1 the door sticker says 3-70 fender tag 401, block no vin 4-3-70 2 door 3-70 403, " " 3 door 3-70 407 " " It would be impossible for any car built in March 1970 (assuming the door stickers you are looking at are originals) to have an original April 1970 cast engine from the factory. Yes, impossible for a March built car to have an April casting from the factory. Second car, still impossible. You can rephrase the question any way you like, but nothing will make the scenario you are evidently hoping for possible.
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Re: T/A 'and AAR's
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#2231070
01/09/17 08:39 PM
01/09/17 08:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 704 WV
Little Detroit
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OP
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Posts: 704
WV
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actually Berry you only answered part of the Question. once you made your answer I followed up with another post asking if you have any documentation to support that theory or is that or is that speculation from your past research? You see I value your opinion to a point , but to take it as fact without documentation would be something I would not bet on. Its fine with me that others look to you for answers. But, with out documentation the answer should start with "in my opinion". That is exactly why I asked if you had any documentation to support or deny the scenario's I asked about. So now I'll ask , do you have any documentation to support your statement? That is also why I asked if you would post the info that you have and vin's, tag info, decal pics and block pics if possible. If you don't have the time or if you simply don't want to I under stand ,but you could try share the info with rest of us. Speculation or Documentation which is it? to correct you I didn't rephrase any questions it was always the same Questions with more details. but I must say you always answer the in same manner. but I have noticed that you avoid some questions or don't wish to answer. which ever it may be .When asked about a possible strike -no answer, about maybe cars pulled off line-no answer, and when gave your answer "impossible" I merely asked you if you had any documentation or was it speculation on your part thru your past research -no answer. You have obtained a lot of information from members to build your data base, thought you like to help others figure out their info from what you have gathered. some us have come up with Ligament questions and just asked if you have any documentation or if you could provide the info previously asked for to help themselves and others do their own research . like I said earlier "opinons" are respected but sometimes they differ with others ,on the other hand "documentation" is "definite".
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