Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
#2215582
12/17/16 12:56 PM
12/17/16 12:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 253 near St Petersburg, FL
Lifsgrt
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OP
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near St Petersburg, FL
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Debating on buying headers with standard vs merge collectors for my B-block, 500" B1MC headed wedge Daytona clone for Bonneville 2017. I'm looking for max hp for a few minutes at a time to make 240+ mph on the salt, so every little bit is needed. I know it is hazardous on a stock block...got it...but that is what I'm doing. Don't want to spend the extra $$ on merge collectors if normal (probably TTI) collectors will do the deed. Also, will crankcase evacuators pull any vacuum at say 7000+? Thanks and Merry Christmas!
B3 1969 Charger R/T SE, 440/727 with 3:91s running 11.07@120
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2215596
12/17/16 01:18 PM
12/17/16 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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Merge collectors are built for a engine.. it works in a small rpm range... to buy a merge off the shelf is a waste... if someone says they picked up it was most likely because they had new headers built and not due to the merge gaining anything.. I tried building a bunch of different merge collectors and tried them on a set of headers I built.. I didnt see any gains from them.. a standard collector will cover a wider rpm range.. just make sure the collector is about 18" long.. if you build the headers try to get the tubes equal length for max power and the proper length for the engine.. a shelf header is made for a wide range of engines but it really is designed for one and is made to fit in the car so they arent equal length or the proper length for most engine
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2215643
12/17/16 02:22 PM
12/17/16 02:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,564 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
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master
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Many top NHRA Super Stock, Stock and Comp Eliminator cars run this guys headers / collectors. He does sells collectors separately. His work is beautiful. He also builds the headers that are on the Ken Black (Anderson, Line and Butner) Pro Stock Cars. Mark is a nice guy and I am sure he would talk to you about your project. http://www.perfweldheaders.com/Performance Welding Racing Headers 5898 Melody Lane Foresthill, CA 95631 Phone: (530) 367- 4124 Mark Lelchook / Owner It sounds like you have fun project you have going, good luck with it. Bill
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2215889
12/17/16 09:22 PM
12/17/16 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,511 DFW
mr_340
master
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master
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DFW
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I think Mark had some merge collectors marked down on his Facebook page.
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2215923
12/17/16 10:53 PM
12/17/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 253 near St Petersburg, FL
Lifsgrt
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enthusiast
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OP
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Posts: 253
near St Petersburg, FL
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Excellent, thanks fellas. Thoughts on header crankcase evacuators?
B3 1969 Charger R/T SE, 440/727 with 3:91s running 11.07@120
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2215928
12/17/16 11:08 PM
12/17/16 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Excellent, thanks fellas. Thoughts on header crankcase evacuators? Your trying to build a max effort engine.. a evac on the header will pull a max of 5"hg..not enough for a max effort engine EDIT Put a Star vac pump on it
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/17/16 11:14 PM.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2215936
12/17/16 11:27 PM
12/17/16 11:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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bean town ....Ca
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Excellent, thanks fellas. Thoughts on header crankcase evacuators? Your trying to build a max effort engine.. a evac on the header will pull a max of 5"hg..not enough for a max effort engine EDIT Put a Star vac pump on it I agree with mr. P... you're gonna need a pump
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: camastomcat]
#2216108
12/18/16 11:13 AM
12/18/16 11:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 291 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
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Yep, what they said. No way pan evac in the headers will do anything but harm IMO. what would the harm with pan evac be?
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2216112
12/18/16 11:21 AM
12/18/16 11:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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master
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Won't need evac or pump with a dry sump.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Harry's Taxi 2]
#2216157
12/18/16 12:44 PM
12/18/16 12:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128 Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
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Salt Lake City
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Yep, what they said. No way pan evac in the headers will do anything but harm IMO. what would the harm with pan evac be? Along time ago when I went from a stock stroke to a 4.15 stroke, I had more trouble with the exhaust blowing into the crankcase. It actually created pressure instead of vacuum. And before you ask, yes I had the one way valves that went on the collectors. When I disconnected the hoses,everything was fine. I was only topping out at 6800 RPM back then, not 8000 +. Vacuum pump for that RPM and B1/MC heads is a good idea and necessary IMO.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2216158
12/18/16 12:44 PM
12/18/16 12:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 724 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
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Central TEXAS!!!!
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merge collector do work as part of a "system". changing just the collector may not gain anything. I build a set for my engine and the results were interesting to say the least. I have a 512 methanol MFI BBM with B1 heads running a cam that has .806 lift 282/290 @.050. So after reading about theory behind merge collectors, I decided to build a set. My original headers were 2.125 x 30 with a conventional 4 inch collector. My merge collectors are 2inch x 11 then 2.125 x12 with a 3 inch merge, a 9 degree taper and the pipes running in a circle. So had the engine on the dyno, replaced the old headers with the new, on the 1st pull the engine went into severe detonation, looking at the data it was way way lean. Added fuel back into the engine and ended up gaining 3hp and caring out the RPM range another 200 RPM. But here what I seen, the BSFC on the old headers was .995 and with the new it’s 1.14 (o2's now reading the same). So i now have a new cam in it with a lot less exhaust duration and will test it as soon as i have time and the weather is good. If you have some time, read this tread http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41105 Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2216222
12/18/16 02:12 PM
12/18/16 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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I hope you talk to the company to get ones that are designed for your engine.. those are one thing that one doesnt fit all engines.. diameter, length, tapper rate on both ends all come into play.. if you ever made expansion chambers for a snowmobile you will understand what I'm saying.. I made a set of chambers that had a TON of torque but ran out of rpm at 6000 rpm.. but that sled stood up right on end at the hit.. then I built another set that didnt have much torque but had great high end power
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: camastomcat]
#2216223
12/18/16 02:12 PM
12/18/16 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 291 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 291
PA
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Yep, what they said. No way pan evac in the headers will do anything but harm IMO. what would the harm with pan evac be? Along time ago when I went from a stock stroke to a 4.15 stroke, I had more trouble with the exhaust blowing into the crankcase. It actually created pressure instead of vacuum. And before you ask, yes I had the one way valves that went on the collectors. When I disconnected the hoses,everything was fine. I was only topping out at 6800 RPM back then, not 8000 +. Vacuum pump for that RPM and B1/MC heads is a good idea and necessary IMO. Thanks for the explanation. I'll keep that in mind for some future projects.
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: dthemi]
#2216316
12/18/16 04:22 PM
12/18/16 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Going from a 2 1/4 tube into a non merge 5 inch collector VS a 2 1/4 to 2 3/8 to 2 1/2 into a spd merge with cone was worth 18hp on a 1075hp hemi. Tested on the dyno. When testing like this I wish you would have tested the 2 1/4 tubes into the merge.. being that you went with the step header then into the merge its hard to say what did what.. I did some testing back at work with just adding a few different configurations of merge on the same engine and the same header.. most didnt do anything.. and one hurt the total power output.. it gained 3hp for a 1000rpm range down lower but hurt the max output by 7hp
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/18/16 04:24 PM.
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Re: Merge collectors - anybody with actual gains?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2216333
12/18/16 04:48 PM
12/18/16 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
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Romeo MI
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I understand what you are saying BUT a dyno is a way to get repeatable data on different days or even the same day to control all the input factors.. remember its just numbers we are playing with.. if it goes up its up down is down.. going to the track has to many variables to control true data. sure the track will(in most cases)see a difference
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