Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211368
12/10/16 05:04 PM
12/10/16 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,555 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,555
Michigan
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Do you know how many miles are on the motor? If it's in that good of shape I would leave the bottom end alone and focus on the top. $3k budget?
440 Source heads: $1k Used dual plane: $120 Headers: $150 Used Holley: $150 Cam set: $150 Rear sump pan: $150 Mounts: $100 Gaskets: $100
I know you said you weren't considering aluminum heads, but after freshening up a set of irons you're halfway there and you still need to deal with the compression issue.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2211383
12/10/16 05:37 PM
12/10/16 05:37 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Have the bores checked with a dial bore gauge for wear and taper before deciding to re-use the stock pistons. How do the main and rod bearings look, how much clearance? Do the rings rotate freely in the piston, or are they all carbon up? Are you re-using the stock rod bolts, or replacing them and having the rods resized? Inspect crank journals and crank run out and straightness in case the crank needs re-ground and bearings to match. What condition are the cylinder heads seats, valves and valve guides?
I guess if it was me, and had a good short block, then I would leave the short block alone and put smaller chamber heads on the engine. If you used something like the 78cc Trick flow heads, that should put compression around 9.5:1, already have new everything new including springs for aftermarket cam. That would kill your budget because of the cost of the aftermarket rockers arms, and hardware, but give you room to make alot more power later when you can afford to build a stronger short block.
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2212650
12/12/16 05:06 PM
12/12/16 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,326 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,326
A gulag near you.
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What about something with 250-270 duration or slightly less, or will this be too much? How much lift? I'm settled on a dual plane intake, probably eddy performer rpm and a 750 Holley carb. I have also considered putting 4:10 gears in to help as well. Am currently running 31 inch tires. Also, there is no machining to be done here. I doubt my particular engine has even 30,000 miles. The truck right now has a warmed over 318 (eddy 600 cfm carb, performer intake and cam, ported heads, headers) that is crippled by low compression as it sits. Makes no torque in all reality, but pulls good above 3000 rpm. Would like to keep my stock converter, or go with a slightly better one. Will it be a night and day difference from the 318? Listen to what fast68plymouth is telling you. I would opt for the regular performer or a CH4B if you can find it .
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: kowalski440]
#2212655
12/12/16 05:14 PM
12/12/16 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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The original compression ratio for that engine is right at 7.2:1. It's been calculated a zillion times here. The piston is down in the hole about 0.180". Increasing the comp ratio from the original honest 7.2:1, to 9.5:1 increases power output by 8.7%. So a 350 hp engine turns into a 380 hp engine with no other changes. The original 440s were dynoed and at the standard conditions of that test procedure they would make 335 hp. That is per an interview with an old Chrysler guy in Mopar Action years ago. I agree with whoever said first thing is to buy a new set of Stealth heads. 440Source has one pair in their clearance section for $750 delivered. Those heads are worth up to 90 hp over stock cast iron heads. Now that flow is taken care of, compression is next. The Six Pack pistons will get you to about 9.5:1 compression, maybe a little bit less. But they will also give you squish which will help by reducing negative work. If you cant find a set of those then using the data from another post, look for original pistons for a 1967 or 1968 HP 440, they'll at least get you into the mid 8s. With a heavy truck and low compression you need a short duration cam that closes the intake valve early. Either the .484 or .509 cam is way too big. XE262 Comp is as big as I'd go. R. PS: Thanks to Polyspheric (I think) for this useful page: http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/otto-c.htm
Last edited by dogdays; 12/12/16 05:15 PM.
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2212775
12/12/16 08:30 PM
12/12/16 08:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
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Stick with the 262 - 268 cams, Performer (not RPM) intake, and put it back together. Save your pennies for a set of pistons and heads.
That will get you by and give you a significant torque increase over that gutless 318.
Just for giggles, I dynoed my 72 Imperial with it's bone stock California spec 440. Popping off the factory air cleaner pushed me up to a whopping 199 rear wheel hp and 294 lb/ft.
It was rated at 225 hp and 345 lb/ft so I think it was doing pretty good.
Sliding in a cam perked it up but the timing gear let go before I got it back on the dyno.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Building low compression 440 (first post)
[Re: Benson]
#2217218
12/19/16 07:20 PM
12/19/16 07:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559 Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm looking to stay away from the machine shop in this one. The link that kowalski440 posted contains an interesting buildup, sort of what I'm going for. To summarize the article, they used an m1 single plane intake, headers, 850 cfm carbs, 516 heads. Made alot power surprisingly. I'm going to run a dual plane intake, a decent carb (850 seems a little much, not sure if my 440 will run that carb without being super rich), and either a .509 purple cam or the .484 lift can. A good port job on the heads as well to insure good flow (If a set of 915# casting come up, I will snag em, but otherwise it's the 452# or 250# heads I have.) And a set of headers as well. I built and dyno'd the 440 engine that kowalski440 referenced you to. There is no way I would suggest you run the 509 cam we used. The best truck engine I ever had was a bone stock 440 out of a 1973 Chrysler New Yorker. I used it in a 1 ton welding truck and towed some big trailers with it at the same time. Don't use the 250 heads as the 452s are a better head, clean them up and run them. The 452 heads are easier to get flowing for the amateur porter and will get better flows than the 250 heads. Keeping the stock pistons I definitely wouldn't run a cam any bigger than 220 @ .050". A stock cast iron 4bbl intake manifold from 1968-1970 works fine in a truck application. Use the CH4B, or the Performer RPM if you must.
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