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Roller Rockers question #2208980
12/06/16 10:11 PM
12/06/16 10:11 PM
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Beans Cove Pa
Bumbalawski Offline OP
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Bumbalawski  Offline OP
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Beans Cove Pa
I have an RB engine that I am building that uses a solid roller cam. The valve springs will around 550 lbs. open. The are not offset. I would prefer to use a true roller rocker and not a bushed one with a roller tip. Also, this will be a street engine. What would be a good durable rocker at a reasonable price? And would a bushed rocker hold up if I were to go that route?

Thanks,
Don

Last edited by Bumbalawski; 12/07/16 12:13 AM.
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209003
12/06/16 10:45 PM
12/06/16 10:45 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Bump for ya.. but bushed ones will work fine on
the street with those spring pressures... but
I will let the BB guys suggest which ones
wave

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209009
12/06/16 10:59 PM
12/06/16 10:59 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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I would never use a needle bearing on a reciprocating shaft. A bushing is a better deal.

550 on the seat isn't much.

Keep your idle oil pressure above 30 pounds.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2209010
12/06/16 11:00 PM
12/06/16 11:00 PM
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Deerfield, Ohio
70dusterjohn Offline
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Off set or non offset ?

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209014
12/06/16 11:02 PM
12/06/16 11:02 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Needle shaft bearings are one of those ideas that sound good, but their only benefit is that they only need to be "wet", allowing you to restrict top end oil or use the extra flow for cooling spray, while plain bushing rockers need pressure delivery to the shaft.
Needle bearings provide far less support than a plain or bushed surface, are fragile, expensive, dirt-sensitive, and the theoretical advantage of reduced friction is too small to measure.
The needles must be thicker than a bushing, which requires a thinner shaft, a weaker rocker arm with a thinner wall at the shaft support area, or a larger rocker arm. This is simply money thrown away and needless complexity, except for professional racing. Don’t bother.



Boffin Emeritus
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209066
12/07/16 12:10 AM
12/07/16 12:10 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I have bought and used several different brands of aluminum true roller rocker arms as well as extruded aluminum roller tip rocker arms on solid roller cam BB Mopar V8 motors. The only true needle bearing aluminum roller rocker arm I will use now on the street are the Harland Sharp brand, I like and use their 1.6 ratio rockers now thumbs
As far as your deal you can use a bushed ductile iron or stainless bushed rocker arms with probably no problems with those spring pressures thumbs twocents
IHTHs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: polyspheric] #2209163
12/07/16 03:23 AM
12/07/16 03:23 AM
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Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner Offline
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Originally Posted By polyspheric
Needle shaft bearings are one of those ideas that sound good, but their only benefit is that they only need to be "wet", allowing you to restrict top end oil or use the extra flow for cooling spray, while plain bushing rockers need pressure delivery to the shaft.
Needle bearings provide far less support than a plain or bushed surface, are fragile, expensive, dirt-sensitive, and the theoretical advantage of reduced friction is too small to measure.
The needles must be thicker than a bushing, which requires a thinner shaft, a weaker rocker arm with a thinner wall at the shaft support area, or a larger rocker arm. This is simply money thrown away and needless complexity, except for professional racing. Don’t bother.


I agree with this completely,plus the added chance of a rocker bearing failure contaminating your engine.Being a street engine I'm sure it won't fall under routine race engine teardown/inspection~RT

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209258
12/07/16 12:31 PM
12/07/16 12:31 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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I have a set of Harland Sharps - installed but not yet used. I've been contemplating pressing out the bearings and pressing in bushings. Any thoughts ??

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209262
12/07/16 12:34 PM
12/07/16 12:34 PM
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Porter67 Offline
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I've been contemplating pressing out the bearings and pressing in bushings. Any thoughts ??

Yes.... Why? Why not just use a rocker that was designed for one or the other?

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Stanton] #2209263
12/07/16 12:35 PM
12/07/16 12:35 PM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted By Stanton
I have a set of Harland Sharps - installed but not yet used. I've been contemplating pressing out the bearings and pressing in bushings. Any thoughts ??




WHY?????????? How many Harland Sharp rockers have you ever heard of going bad and when I see how bad some guys set up their valve train it should be common.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: pittsburghracer] #2209295
12/07/16 01:20 PM
12/07/16 01:20 PM
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State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Guess I've been doing it wrong all of these years w/solid roller cams, needle bearings in my rockers, 8" overheating verts and BIG carbs..........too funny.......ANYTHING can and will break in the "wrong" hands and sometimes things just fail. In the op's case HS's or a good bushed lifter if it helps ya sleep........... beer


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Thumperdart] #2209307
12/07/16 01:33 PM
12/07/16 01:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Guess I've been doing it wrong all of these years w/solid roller cams, needle bearings in my rockers, 8" overheating verts and BIG carbs..........too funny.......ANYTHING can and will break in the "wrong" hands and sometimes things just fail. In the op's case HS's or a good bushed lifter if it helps ya sleep........... beer

iagree I have a set of full roller Harland Sharps on my Indy headed 440. They were new sometime back in the '90s and have a lot of use on them.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2209389
12/07/16 04:12 PM
12/07/16 04:12 PM
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Thumperdart Offline
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Yep.........Thankxxx again Chip Lee's carb went out yesterday....... thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209424
12/07/16 05:02 PM
12/07/16 05:02 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Guess I'm convinced to leave them alone !!!

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Stanton] #2209487
12/07/16 06:48 PM
12/07/16 06:48 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I put over 3000 street miles and hundreds of passes on my Duster motor with the Harland Sharps 1.6 ratio shifting at or above 7000 RPM with no failures ever work up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/07/16 09:39 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Bumbalawski] #2209581
12/07/16 09:36 PM
12/07/16 09:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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Harland Sharp! Just like they come...

Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: Thumperdart] #2209982
12/08/16 12:12 PM
12/08/16 12:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Yep.........Thankxxx again Chip Lee's carb went out yesterday....... thumbs

Thanks Dom, we are both excited to get it back and test it out!

I remember posts from not that long ago about why roller bearing rockers were they way to go and bushed rockers were crap. Funny how things go, lol.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2210096
12/08/16 03:35 PM
12/08/16 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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The full roller Harland Sharp rockers kits have caged needle bearings in the center of the rocker arms so there is no way for the needles to fall out scope They also have solid roller tip wheels on harden axles on the valve stem end, no needle bearings out there. They have special harden shafts for the rockers to ride on along with specific spacers and shaft hold downs.
I had one set of the original early(1960s made)BB rockers that had two roller tip axles that where worn, the wheels where good. I replaced those two axles and that set is still on the road today up I bought a set of used 1.6 for the Indy 440-1, the rollers had more side to side slop in them that I liked and I sent them back to Harland Sharp after telling them about my problem on the used rocker arms and they machine the ends for wider wheels and replaced them and the axles and returned them to me for $42.00 including the shipping work boogie thumbs
I've never heard of a racer or hater on here say that they had a on engine failure with those rocker arms shruggy

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/08/16 03:43 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Roller Rockers question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2210216
12/08/16 07:07 PM
12/08/16 07:07 PM
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Thumperdart Offline
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Yep.........Thankxxx again Chip Lee's carb went out yesterday....... thumbs

Thanks Dom, we are both excited to get it back and test it out!

I remember posts from not that long ago about why roller bearing rockers were they way to go and bushed rockers were crap. Funny how things go, lol.


Mee too man...............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....






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