Roller Rockers question
#2208980
12/06/16 10:11 PM
12/06/16 10:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 318 Beans Cove Pa
Bumbalawski
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 318
Beans Cove Pa
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I have an RB engine that I am building that uses a solid roller cam. The valve springs will around 550 lbs. open. The are not offset. I would prefer to use a true roller rocker and not a bushed one with a roller tip. Also, this will be a street engine. What would be a good durable rocker at a reasonable price? And would a bushed rocker hold up if I were to go that route?
Thanks, Don
Last edited by Bumbalawski; 12/07/16 12:13 AM.
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Bumbalawski]
#2209003
12/06/16 10:45 PM
12/06/16 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Bump for ya.. but bushed ones will work fine on the street with those spring pressures... but I will let the BB guys suggest which ones
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Bumbalawski]
#2209009
12/06/16 10:59 PM
12/06/16 10:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I would never use a needle bearing on a reciprocating shaft. A bushing is a better deal.
550 on the seat isn't much.
Keep your idle oil pressure above 30 pounds.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Bumbalawski]
#2209014
12/06/16 11:02 PM
12/06/16 11:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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Needle shaft bearings are one of those ideas that sound good, but their only benefit is that they only need to be "wet", allowing you to restrict top end oil or use the extra flow for cooling spray, while plain bushing rockers need pressure delivery to the shaft. Needle bearings provide far less support than a plain or bushed surface, are fragile, expensive, dirt-sensitive, and the theoretical advantage of reduced friction is too small to measure. The needles must be thicker than a bushing, which requires a thinner shaft, a weaker rocker arm with a thinner wall at the shaft support area, or a larger rocker arm. This is simply money thrown away and needless complexity, except for professional racing. Don’t bother.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Bumbalawski]
#2209066
12/07/16 12:10 AM
12/07/16 12:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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I have bought and used several different brands of aluminum true roller rocker arms as well as extruded aluminum roller tip rocker arms on solid roller cam BB Mopar V8 motors. The only true needle bearing aluminum roller rocker arm I will use now on the street are the Harland Sharp brand, I like and use their 1.6 ratio rockers now As far as your deal you can use a bushed ductile iron or stainless bushed rocker arms with probably no problems with those spring pressures IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: polyspheric]
#2209163
12/07/16 03:23 AM
12/07/16 03:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881 Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881
Pittsburgh,PA
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Needle shaft bearings are one of those ideas that sound good, but their only benefit is that they only need to be "wet", allowing you to restrict top end oil or use the extra flow for cooling spray, while plain bushing rockers need pressure delivery to the shaft. Needle bearings provide far less support than a plain or bushed surface, are fragile, expensive, dirt-sensitive, and the theoretical advantage of reduced friction is too small to measure. The needles must be thicker than a bushing, which requires a thinner shaft, a weaker rocker arm with a thinner wall at the shaft support area, or a larger rocker arm. This is simply money thrown away and needless complexity, except for professional racing. Don’t bother.
I agree with this completely,plus the added chance of a rocker bearing failure contaminating your engine.Being a street engine I'm sure it won't fall under routine race engine teardown/inspection~RT
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Stanton]
#2209263
12/07/16 12:35 PM
12/07/16 12:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I have a set of Harland Sharps - installed but not yet used. I've been contemplating pressing out the bearings and pressing in bushings. Any thoughts ?? WHY?????????? How many Harland Sharp rockers have you ever heard of going bad and when I see how bad some guys set up their valve train it should be common.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2209307
12/07/16 01:33 PM
12/07/16 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Guess I've been doing it wrong all of these years w/solid roller cams, needle bearings in my rockers, 8" overheating verts and BIG carbs..........too funny.......ANYTHING can and will break in the "wrong" hands and sometimes things just fail. In the op's case HS's or a good bushed lifter if it helps ya sleep........... I have a set of full roller Harland Sharps on my Indy headed 440. They were new sometime back in the '90s and have a lot of use on them.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2209982
12/08/16 12:12 PM
12/08/16 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Yep.........Thankxxx again Chip Lee's carb went out yesterday....... Thanks Dom, we are both excited to get it back and test it out! I remember posts from not that long ago about why roller bearing rockers were they way to go and bushed rockers were crap. Funny how things go, lol.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2210096
12/08/16 03:35 PM
12/08/16 03:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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The full roller Harland Sharp rockers kits have caged needle bearings in the center of the rocker arms so there is no way for the needles to fall out They also have solid roller tip wheels on harden axles on the valve stem end, no needle bearings out there. They have special harden shafts for the rockers to ride on along with specific spacers and shaft hold downs. I had one set of the original early(1960s made)BB rockers that had two roller tip axles that where worn, the wheels where good. I replaced those two axles and that set is still on the road today I bought a set of used 1.6 for the Indy 440-1, the rollers had more side to side slop in them that I liked and I sent them back to Harland Sharp after telling them about my problem on the used rocker arms and they machine the ends for wider wheels and replaced them and the axles and returned them to me for $42.00 including the shipping I've never heard of a racer or hater on here say that they had a on engine failure with those rocker arms
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/08/16 03:43 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Roller Rockers question
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2210216
12/08/16 07:07 PM
12/08/16 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Yep.........Thankxxx again Chip Lee's carb went out yesterday....... Thanks Dom, we are both excited to get it back and test it out! I remember posts from not that long ago about why roller bearing rockers were they way to go and bushed rockers were crap. Funny how things go, lol. Mee too man...............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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