[quote=justinp61]I enjoy bracket racing, a guy can do it in his daily driver if he wants. The heads up stuff is more often than not won by the guy with the deepest pockets.

I heard how bracket racing/index racing was "invented" by Ron Leek directly from him this past September. He talked about how the racer count was WAY down and everyone that showed up at his race was running to see who could come in second, because everybody already knew who was going to be first. That's no good for the racers or the spectators. Bracket racing/index racing fixed that.

Electronics are fowling up racing (especially Pro class) and it seems sanctioning bodies can't figure that out and give us our own class. Now its turning out who has the most electronics wins.

Heads up, sooner or later the guy with the most money wins.

IMO if you're running in an index class it isn't heads up, it's just another form of bracket racing. True heads up is you leave together and who ever gets to the stripe (no foul) first wins. Not trying to be critical, just my $.02.

Bracket Racing isn't technically "racing". It is a precision timed sport.

If I ever won the lottery, I would buy/build a SS/AH car, and have the best of both worlds. Heads up in the Shootouts, and brackets in Eliminations.

Nothing wrong with either one.

Index racing is " Heads Up". If two cars leave at the same time it's heads up...

Fixed it for you

I agree to disagree .

Index racing is just a bracket race where everyone's dial in is the same. It is not a heads up race.
Not bashing it, I enjoy it, but it isn't heads up racing.

Bracket racing is boring for spectators, but fun otherwise. I've pretty much decided to make my road runner project a bracket car and leave the cuda for test and tune night fun. Maybe an occasional street car shootout, but those are so out of hand now I may be done w/ them all together.

If you have a breakout rule, it is NOT Heads Up...

How do electronics win a race?.... provided it is not doing something to control the car. It is YOU that has to turn the button loose and it is YOU that has to drive the stripe and make the car repeat.

Well this BR thing has been a long topic of discussion for me and others on certain forums over here in UK. I’ve been trying to get some sort of affordable H-up racing going that is fair to the racers, and relies on your skill at tuning not the size of your wallet, and not just the no rules stuff that happens which is a farce with 10sec cars against 7 sec.
Racing in the UK is ALL Brackets and Index racing for sportsman racers, most here just build a car to what they want and then find a class to race it in, and of course they end up either an index or bracket class, its exciting to them I guess as there in it and doing it, as I did a long time ago.
But from a retired Drag Racer who sort of got back into it over the last 3yrs I’m now sitting in the stands and I gotta say it IS totally fall asleep time, and I know whats going on, so whats it like for the new spectator who doesn’t really get it....why did 1 car start after the other, or why did the car that crossed the line first lose, and why do a lot of cars start ok, then slow down, and pick up again?
We are obsessed with it here, for a short period we did have a Super Modified class, unfortunately when I wasn’t around, that was fair H-up racing with weight brakes and proper rules to equal the cars out, but it died as the cars got too fast for the rules.......all people keep saying is they cannot afford to go Pro-racing to run H-up.....and I keep telling them you don’t have to, but I just cannot get through to them that H-up first to cut the beam has to have some rules to equal the cars out otherwise its a waste of time, sportsman racers do not like rules here period, I’ve now given up with them and gone Pro-Mod racing with an old mate who’s got his new car out.

I think some of you guys don't really understand "electronics" racing. The electronics do nothing to help you win a race. Anyone who thinks so need to hop in and give it a try. After all it usually pays well, with more and more million dollar races why miss out..

As for the question at hand I have done both. Heads up on a working mans budget just don't happen, unless you don't mind being at the back of the pack and just sayin hey look at me I'm a heads up racer. I am sure most know I enjoy the type of racing you all hate, throttle stop stuff. Way more challenging to do well and make the car repeat. For now I have moved to the fastest form of bracket racing I can afford, top Sportsman. But hey I have electronics in the car so winning should be easy right???

To put bracket racing in to perspective, I think Slantzilla needs to chime in. Perty sure he won Pro at the MATS a few years back with a rental car. He could have made it a lot less painful for the competition if he had at least lettered the car with shoe polish.

Ditto. With 10k plus races all over now bracket racing can pay quite well.

I have been bracket racing for over twenty five years and did the try to go faster/ lower e.t.thing. When they moved Pro to 9:00 as the fastest my car ran mid 10s I got out. About 8 years ago I put a mechanical throttle stop on along with DOT front tires and Q.T.P.s on the rear I slowed the car down to run 11.50 for Street Eliminator and 11.50 index racing and am having a blast resulting in more round and eliminator wins than ever before. Index racing is fun here in the Northeast division they run index classes at some points/ open races and we got to compete at a National meet running 11.5o index which was really a ball.

Don't shoot the messenger, but I have some questions & thoughts... AND I plead COMPLETE ignorance on the subject of electronics in brackets & Super-class racing right up front.

1. Some of you mentioned big-money bracket races. Are they for electronics only, or do they have footbrake classes, too? If both, how do the turnouts compare between the two?

2. Any big-money footbrake-only races? I recall there were in the past, but don't ask me to define what "past" means since I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

3. What if there were serious MPH limits applied to the Super classes? How would the 10.90 and 9.90 classes change if the two classes were limited to 130 & 140 MPH (or even 5 MPH slower?) respectively?

4. What would happen if ALL electronics were banned? Would car counts tank simply because everyone had to go back to footbraking it? If so, why? If there's still a good paying purse, what difference does it make?

5. If electronics don't actually make the car easier to bracket race, then why should people complain if they all simply went away? Wouldn't that still maintain a level playing field, or are you concerned about the cheaters that will still find ways to build hidden electronics into their combinations?

6. Top Sportsman has a cut-off based on quickest qualifiers, right? What if -- and again w/ the no-electronics idea still in play -- ALL classes were broken out by qualifying time? The first 32 go to Class A, the second fastest 32 go to Class B, etc.? This would (or "should") keep the cars in any given class somewhere reasonably close in ETs, and reduce the concerns about a 9-sec. car racing a 14-sec. car (unless you only had those 2 cars show up).

7. Gawd, I hate watching a throttle-stop car... Oh, did I just say that? Yeah. Sorry guys, but those are total thrill-killers from a spectator standpoint.

Flame away. But I'm really curious about this stuff. I did a little bit of local heads-up DOT radial racing 15+ years ago when the cars were still running double-digit ETs, and some street car footbrake-only bracket racing, too. I like heads-up stuff better, simply because it's "pure" drag racing. But I did have fun running brackets, too, and would like to participate more regularly in the future.

At this point, it's been so long since I've done anything but test & tunes ('cuz I'm one of those people who always looks for tweaks to make the car faster) that I'm sure some people on here think my opinion doesn't matter either way. However, sometimes it takes someone who isn't buried into it up to their eyeballs to have a different -- possibly even better -- perspective on things.

It's the same old argument. Foot brakers and spectators complain that watching a car fall flat on its face running a t-stop is boring, t-stop racers don't seem to care if they drive the spectators away and tell you there aren't any in the stands any way, and that it's harder than it looks. Spectators will say they don't care or want to learn how hard it is, they came to watch a car 'explode' off the line, not leave, fart for .5 of a second and leave again. I'm surprised there's any money in it for the track operators hosting t-stop classes or events; who's watching - other t-stop racers or their crews/families? Who puts up the bulk of the purse other than the drivers themselves? T-stop racing is a lot like life - hurry up and wait...

Is it "Winter time" I thought that didn't come until mid December

When t-stop cars come to the line--I will not watch them, it turns my stomach. my opinion is that there is no way that is racing period no matter how hard it is to win.

I have lost interest in bracket in the last few years. I had conversations with fellow racers about how drag racing is a dying sport. All you see at the strips are old guys with gray hair, like myself and very few young guys.

I went down to Georgia to No Mercy 7, than I realized that drag racing is not dying. Drag racing as we know (bracket racing)is dying, but heads up drag racing is not dying , it is alive and well. It was a breath of fresh air when I saw all the young guys owning and working on race cars.

Thanks for the kind words John, but it was Street Class, it was in a 300 rental car. Still managed to hurt some feelings.

I like bracket racing because it is what I can afford. Most of the true heads-up stuff is way more than I will ever be able to afford.

I appreciate the skill it takes to run the .90 classes. I do want to try my hand at Super Street, but not sure it will ever happen.

I have a chance to buy my buddy Mike's V/SA car turnkey. It was the baddest V car in the country until Tool's Mustang showed up. Unfortunately for me, Danny is in Div. 3 too, so the chances of running him everywhere I'd go would be 100% or so.