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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2053837
04/13/16 07:53 PM
04/13/16 07:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
BigMoneyLewis
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
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Although It may be "statistically incorrect" I'm still saying 5 or less , no matter what math you want to use , based on the law of averages, and what is known .I can also say with certainty their were probably less than 5 TX9 black Hemi R/T SE Challengers for example. When dealing with a real low number (like a double digit)to begin with , then stack a "pretty rare option / or color, or vinyl top style on top of that, you can usually figure it pretty close. You know you are going to be down low in the single digits. This guestimation system does not apply when dealing with such things as AAR Cudas etc. where you have large blocks of cars built in sets, for a reason (eg. over half of All FM3 pink 'cudas are A53 AARs , but there is a reason for that )
Although it it true you can not get an exact number based on the way records were recorded, you can certainly make a good "educated" guess .
Let's say thir were 30 1971 Hemi GTXs , and we know GW3 sno white was a pretty low
production number as far as color , so even if we over estimate and say 10% , that's 3 units. I would feel safe going to Vegas and betting 3 or less 1971 Hemi GTXs came from the factory in GW3 . And hey, it "could" be as low as 1 (or zero) or as high as 4 , but I would be willing to bet it came down to 3 or less . Now , if we were talking about trying to guess an option on an option on a high production total..forget about it .
How many 1969 Charger R/Ts were F6 green with A/C , who knows . Nobody will figure that one out. But, if you ask, how many 69 Charger R/T 's were F6 green, with sunroof , and a Hemi, and 4-speed, I'd bet it's less than 3 . I would be comfortable saying the correct answer is either 1, 2, or 3 , any of which would fit in the 3 or less category.
Again, this mathematical mayhem does not apply to cars like T/A, AAR ,Superbird ,Daytona, Charger 500, etc. , due to the way those cars options were chosen.
Greg
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: BigMoneyLewis]
#2053839
04/13/16 07:57 PM
04/13/16 07:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Let's say thir were 30 1971 Hemi GTXs , and we know GW3 sno white was a pretty low
production number as far as color , so even if we over estimate and say 10% , that's 3 units. I would feel safe going to Vegas and betting 3 or less 1971 Hemi GTXs came from the factory in GW3 . And hey, it "could" be as low as 1 (or zero) or as high as 4 , but I would be willing to bet it came down to 3 or less .
Sno-White... 89 produced(total production)... Sno-White '71 Hemi GTX??? I know of one... So, as far as sno??? You'd probably do good on the wager...
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: BigMoneyLewis]
#2054309
04/14/16 03:27 PM
04/14/16 03:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
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master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
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Greg, the 'statistical mayhem' doesn't apply to any car as one has to use guestimates and improper math, like Mort did, to complete an exercise in futility.
Vegas would not take your bet as there is no way to prove the number produced therefore no bet. (If Vegas could prove the answer, there would be no reason to bet. The numbers would be known.)
Humans want finite answers to questions. It's how we work. Exercises like this show the great lengths people will go to to rationalize and justify the reasons to find that finite answer even if the methodology is incorrect.
Sometimes we have to admit and accept finite answers do not exist and we have to learn to live with that.
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2054376
04/14/16 06:05 PM
04/14/16 06:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
BigMoneyLewis
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,247
Alabama
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Point well taken , but I think most people are misunderstanding what I said . I am not trying to nail a specific number . I am simply over estimating
and stating that 5 or less were build , in all probability , based on common sense . I would never say that number can be proven, or use it as "fact" because it cant be backed by documentation, but that doesn't change the fact that my "guess' is probably correct .
I am not trying to factor an option on an option, because as we all know, that can not be done. The point I am trying to make however is very rare plus super rare equals super super rare .
If you start with a pretty low number like 55 Hemi 1971 Road Runners just as an example . Lets ay it's a 28 / 27 split between D21 and D32 . That we do know . The trans percentage on the RM23R1 is recorded by percentage and translated to an actual number . Now , lets take those 28 4speed cars, and we know they were not all FC7 In Violet . In fact, we know their were about 18 diffrent colors in the Plymouth line up, as well as the wildcard, anything goes, 999 . We know certain colors were more common on certain body styles across the Satellite line, but just because
a certain percentage of Road Runners were EV2 , does not mean that same percentage can be applied to "Hemi Road Runners" . Of course not. That's not what I am saying . But, what I am saying is this . When you know only 28 were Hemis with 4-speeds, then you can rest assured no more than 5 of those were Curious Yellow, with a sun roof and a white vinyl top ,just as an example .
I am not saying that 5 is the total , I am just saying that common sense and the law of averages tell us that their is a 99.999% chance that the total on that breakdown is either zero, 1, 2, 3, or possibly 4 , and I am way over estimating it at 5 .
Look at it like this . Your chance of seeing a big foot is rare. Your chance of seeing a big foot AND getting struck by lightning on the same day is ever more rare . Your chance of seeing a big foot, getting struck by lightning , AND getting attacked by a shark all on the same day ,
the odds are dropping dramatically .
I hope some people can understand what I was trying to say .
Greg
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: BigMoneyLewis]
#2054511
04/14/16 08:56 PM
04/14/16 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,383
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,383
fredericksburg,va
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Point well taken , but I think most people are misunderstanding what I said . I am not trying to nail a specific number . I am simply over estimating
and stating that 5 or less were build , in all probability , based on common sense . I would never say that number can be proven, or use it as "fact" because it cant be backed by documentation, but that doesn't change the fact that my "guess' is probably correct .
I am not trying to factor an option on an option, because as we all know, that can not be done. The point I am trying to make however is very rare plus super rare equals super super rare .
If you start with a pretty low number like 55 Hemi 1971 Road Runners just as an example . Lets ay it's a 28 / 27 split between D21 and D32 . That we do know . The trans percentage on the RM23R1 is recorded by percentage and translated to an actual number . Now , lets take those 28 4speed cars, and we know they were not all FC7 In Violet . In fact, we know their were about 18 diffrent colors in the Plymouth line up, as well as the wildcard, anything goes, 999 . We know certain colors were more common on certain body styles across the Satellite line, but just because
a certain percentage of Road Runners were EV2 , does not mean that same percentage can be applied to "Hemi Road Runners" . Of course not. That's not what I am saying . But, what I am saying is this . When you know only 28 were Hemis with 4-speeds, then you can rest assured no more than 5 of those were Curious Yellow, with a sun roof and a white vinyl top ,just as an example .
I am not saying that 5 is the total , I am just saying that common sense and the law of averages tell us that their is a 99.999% chance that the total on that breakdown is either zero, 1, 2, 3, or possibly 4 , and I am way over estimating it at 5 .
Look at it like this . Your chance of seeing a big foot is rare. Your chance of seeing a big foot AND getting struck by lightning on the same day is ever more rare . Your chance of seeing a big foot, getting struck by lightning , AND getting attacked by a shark all on the same day ,
the odds are dropping dramatically .
I hope some people can understand what I was trying to say .
Greg
Could have bought a 70 Hemi RT-SE purple auto in 75 for $1400. Can't remember what type vinyl top. Had a wing. When it came in new on the truck the owner took it off himself and to his shop. I was new-car pre delivery guy and wanted to " test" it out before he got it, I was bummed out rest of day.
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2197797
11/17/16 02:53 AM
11/17/16 02:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,414
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,414
Highland, MI.
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Speaking of '70 R/T SE Hemis, I have a buddy that has 4 of them still. I took this photo earlier this spring. They just sit inside his heated building. He has owned them since the early 80's.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2197851
11/17/16 10:39 AM
11/17/16 10:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 24
USA
GQ234
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 24
USA
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2197938
11/17/16 01:39 PM
11/17/16 01:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,676
California
biggE
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,676
California
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: biggE]
#2197952
11/17/16 01:56 PM
11/17/16 01:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,797
BC Canada
ogopogo
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,797
BC Canada
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Speaking of '70 R/T SE Hemis, I have a buddy that has 4 of them still. I took this photo earlier this spring. They just sit inside his heated building. He has owned them since the early 80's.
WOW!! Are any of them stick cars and is the black one a real N96 ? amazing.....
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2198002
11/17/16 03:38 PM
11/17/16 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NJ
EV2RTSE
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NJ
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How do you add a picture? I have a few pics of the 1970 Hemi Challenger R/T SE with the gator grain top. Hit reply then under that is File Manager in blue, click that, and upload your picture(s). Let's see the gator grain car!
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2198012
11/17/16 03:56 PM
11/17/16 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
minivan
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
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How do you add a picture? I have a few pics of the 1970 Hemi Challenger R/T SE with the gator grain top. Be very careful with that.. Some sharp people on here who will steal that car right out from under you....
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#2198251
11/17/16 11:23 PM
11/17/16 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,414
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,414
Highland, MI.
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IIRC
the yellow car was green (F8?) & is a 4-spd
the green car was "Top Banana" with green top & interior
the black car was originally "Plum Crazy" non-SHAKER, built by Paul "viperakron" & ran the "Supercar Showdowns" in the mid-'80s
& the purple car is color changed also You know my buddy. Yes, all the cars were color changed, & the black car is NOT an original shaker car. The dark green car is a 4-speed, black car is an auto, & I can't remember the others for sure, but I think they both may be automatics - I could be wrong on that though. All 4 are real McCoy's however - I think one of them still has the original engine. The black car really runs strong - used to be owned by Paul Suloff, & the dark green one was also a Suloff car. Anyway, my buddy wants to sell all of them as he's getting up in years & never drives them anymore. I think my favorite one is the dark green one - I went to York, PA. with him & we trailered this one back in the early 80's to the Hemi Nationals. We've had some good times together over the years.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?
[Re: GQ234]
#2198396
11/18/16 04:45 AM
11/18/16 04:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Morty426
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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How do you add a picture? I have a few pics of the 1970 Hemi Challenger R/T SE with the gator grain top. In the full reply mode, below this box, it says file manager. Click on that it will help you up load the picture
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