How many Hemi Challenger RT/SE with Gator Grain top?

Does anyone know how many 1970 Dodge Hemi Challenger RT/SE that have Gator Grain Vinyl Top?

What did you find?

I don't understand your Question. Can you Clarify your question?

Have you found one?

I think so.

Awesome. I would love to see photos!

So do you know how many where built with the Gator top?

There is no way to know, but I have not seen one.

Yet.

PM me your email address?

How about a link to it? - http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/contact.shtml

Ok sure.

any pics??tag??

Considering that there are only 59 cars for the US - I would say the number would be single digit, possibly zero

1 of 3.

Can you explain why 1 of 3? I'm not understanding what you mean. Thanks.

VIG and JS29R0 on the same tag , I would certainly guess no more than 5 were built , just using the basic law of averages . Take the Hemi out of the equation for a moment and just figure what percentage of R/T SE cars had the V1G , and you kind of go from there . Throw the Hemi in to the mix and you have a real low number . I'm guessing a one handed count with approx one finger left over .

Greg

Thanks

Been hearing about this car for 30 years, every time a buyer shows up with cash the guy bales out. Best of luck, hope you can get it!

Could you please elaborate about the story, I would like to hear more?
Thanks.

Greg, you should know better than that.

The percentage of JS29R0 installations is based on total production (let's avoid the semantics of "US production" from which most info is derived).

The percentage of V1G installations is also based on total production.

Applying a percentage (based on total production) to a smaller sample is statistically incorrect.

Its FJ6 too...........

FJ6 Challenger? Damn...

Although It may be "statistically incorrect" I'm still saying 5 or less , no matter what math you want to use , based on the law of averages, and what is known .I can also say with certainty their were probably less than 5 TX9 black Hemi R/T SE Challengers for example. When dealing with a real low number (like a double digit)to begin with , then stack a "pretty rare option / or color, or vinyl top style on top of that, you can usually figure it pretty close. You know you are going to be down low in the single digits. This guestimation system does not apply when dealing with such things as AAR Cudas etc. where you have large blocks of cars built in sets, for a reason (eg. over half of All FM3 pink 'cudas are A53 AARs , but there is a reason for that )
Although it it true you can not get an exact number based on the way records were recorded, you can certainly make a good "educated" guess .
Let's say thir were 30 1971 Hemi GTXs , and we know GW3 sno white was a pretty low
production number as far as color , so even if we over estimate and say 10% , that's 3 units. I would feel safe going to Vegas and betting 3 or less 1971 Hemi GTXs came from the factory in GW3 . And hey, it "could" be as low as 1 (or zero) or as high as 4 , but I would be willing to bet it came down to 3 or less . Now , if we were talking about trying to guess an option on an option on a high production total..forget about it .
How many 1969 Charger R/Ts were F6 green with A/C , who knows . Nobody will figure that one out. But, if you ask, how many 69 Charger R/T 's were F6 green, with sunroof , and a Hemi, and 4-speed, I'd bet it's less than 3 . I would be comfortable saying the correct answer is either 1, 2, or 3 , any of which would fit in the 3 or less category.
Again, this mathematical mayhem does not apply to cars like T/A, AAR ,Superbird ,Daytona, Charger 500, etc. , due to the way those cars options were chosen.


Greg

Sno-White...


89 produced(total production)...


Sno-White '71 Hemi GTX???


I know of one...



So, as far as sno???


You'd probably do good on the wager...

i like Greg's analogy

I have a 70 Hemi Challenger R/T SE - 59 made
It has a 4 speed - 22 made
It's EK2 ~ 22 x 7.5% = 1.65
Super Trak Pac ~ 1.65 x ~50% = 0.825
Black Top ~ 0.825 x ~60% = 0.495
Leather Interior ~ 0.496 x ~80% = 0.396

Technically my car doesn't exist - LOL

BTW - I know of at least 3 TX9 Hemi Challengers R/T SE

Greg, the 'statistical mayhem' doesn't apply to any car as one has to use guestimates and improper math, like Mort did, to complete an exercise in futility.

Vegas would not take your bet as there is no way to prove the number produced therefore no bet. (If Vegas could prove the answer, there would be no reason to bet. The numbers would be known.)

Humans want finite answers to questions. It's how we work. Exercises like this show the great lengths people will go to to rationalize and justify the reasons to find that finite answer even if the methodology is incorrect.

Sometimes we have to admit and accept finite answers do not exist and we have to learn to live with that.

Point well taken , but I think most people are misunderstanding what I said . I am not trying to nail a specific number . I am simply over estimating
and stating that 5 or less were build , in all probability , based on common sense . I would never say that number can be proven, or use it as "fact" because it cant be backed by documentation, but that doesn't change the fact that my "guess' is probably correct .
I am not trying to factor an option on an option, because as we all know, that can not be done. The point I am trying to make however is very rare plus super rare equals super super rare .
If you start with a pretty low number like 55 Hemi 1971 Road Runners just as an example . Lets ay it's a 28 / 27 split between D21 and D32 . That we do know . The trans percentage on the RM23R1 is recorded by percentage and translated to an actual number . Now , lets take those 28 4speed cars, and we know they were not all FC7 In Violet . In fact, we know their were about 18 diffrent colors in the Plymouth line up, as well as the wildcard, anything goes, 999 . We know certain colors were more common on certain body styles across the Satellite line, but just because
a certain percentage of Road Runners were EV2 , does not mean that same percentage can be applied to "Hemi Road Runners" . Of course not. That's not what I am saying . But, what I am saying is this . When you know only 28 were Hemis with 4-speeds, then you can rest assured no more than 5 of those were Curious Yellow, with a sun roof and a white vinyl top ,just as an example .
I am not saying that 5 is the total , I am just saying that common sense and the law of averages tell us that their is a 99.999% chance that the total on that breakdown is either zero, 1, 2, 3, or possibly 4 , and I am way over estimating it at 5 .
Look at it like this . Your chance of seeing a big foot is rare. Your chance of seeing a big foot AND getting struck by lightning on the same day is ever more rare . Your chance of seeing a big foot, getting struck by lightning , AND getting attacked by a shark all on the same day ,
the odds are dropping dramatically .
I hope some people can understand what I was trying to say .

Greg

Could have bought a 70 Hemi RT-SE purple auto in 75 for $1400. Can't remember what type vinyl top. Had a wing. When it came in new on the truck the owner took it off himself and to his shop. I was new-car pre delivery guy and wanted to " test" it out before he got it, I was bummed out rest of day.

How do you add a picture? I have a few pics of the 1970 Hemi Challenger R/T SE with the gator grain top.

Speaking of '70 R/T SE Hemis, I have a buddy that has 4 of them still. I took this photo earlier this spring. They just sit inside his heated building. He has owned them since the early 80's.

Nice!

WOW! That's crazy

WOW!!
Are any of them stick cars and is the black one a real N96 ? amazing.....

Wow 4! that is amazing!
Matt

Amazing collection for sure. I think he's had at least one or two of them for sale on ebay and elsewhere over the years, I forget the details but at least one is a color change, IIRC. I think green to yellow maybe, not sure though. And pretty sure at least some are legit 4-speeds.

Hit reply then under that is File Manager in blue, click that, and upload your picture(s).

Let's see the gator grain car!

Be very careful with that.. Some sharp people on here who will steal that car right out from under you....

IIRC
the yellow car was green (F8?) & is a 4-spd
the green car was "Top Banana" with green top & interior
the black car was originally "Plum Crazy" non-SHAKER, built by Paul "viperakron" & ran the "Supercar Showdowns" in the mid-'80s
& the purple car is color changed also

You know my buddy. Yes, all the cars were color changed, & the black car is NOT an original shaker car. The dark green car is a 4-speed, black car is an auto, & I can't remember the others for sure, but I think they both may be automatics - I could be wrong on that though. All 4 are real McCoy's however - I think one of them still has the original engine. The black car really runs strong - used to be owned by Paul Suloff, & the dark green one was also a Suloff car. Anyway, my buddy wants to sell all of them as he's getting up in years & never drives them anymore. I think my favorite one is the dark green one - I went to York, PA. with him & we trailered this one back in the early 80's to the Hemi Nationals. We've had some good times together over the years.

In the full reply mode, below this box, it says file manager. Click on that it will help you up load the picture

So I guess there's no way of telling how many hemi challenger cars had gator grain top.

We'll have to settle for "perhaps 1, maybe just a few" so that life can go on

Nobody knows the exact number.

There are only 60 cars total for the US - 23 4 speed, 37 automatics

That is the only important break down.

Once past that, color, options, vinyl tops, stripes it's just guys jerkin' off to say their car is one of one.

THEY ARE ALL 1 OF 1

BTW - I have 1 of the 23 4 speeds, it's rare enough at that point

Today, no. In the future, if records are unearthed, it's possible.

But narrowing down an option based on an engine is a futile statistic IMHO – how many combinations till it starts to get ridiculous?

I was just curious to know. Everyone has good points, thanks guys for the replies.

Prob your best recourse is to contact Galen and see how many he has registered in his registry, unless there's a Hemi Challenger fiend who also collects this info. Galen's info will only be cars in his registry and does not suggest total cars built or even the cars known to exist.

This is a good reason why people need to add to a registry on all types of Chryslers so questions like this can be answered from the information amassed in these registries. This is why I tend to answer questions with known to exist. I own a 1971 Hemi Challenger and it has options that I have never come across on any other 1971 Hemi Challenger. It still is 1 of 78 built with a Hemi. The 78 built number comes from 71 US built, 5 Canadian, 2 Export. Even the 71 US built number is a percentage and could end up to be 70 built making the total 77.There also could be more export 1971 Challenger built putting the total number higher than 78. Canadian numbers are known with 5 being built. Until all cars that were built of a certain vehicle have had there information put into a registry and it meets the percentage total then the numbers are just a good guess from the information that has been amassed.

This Challenger could be the only 1970 RTSE Hemi Challenger built with this type of V roof, but it is still a rare E Body with a Hemi.

Other than the Chrysler Registry (Galen Govier) and Hamtramck Historical (Barry Washington) what Registry would you recommend for these cars (JS29R0Bxxxxxx)?

I will not be sending any info to GG

Thanks
Morty

I sent all the information years ago on 1970 Hemi Cudas and 1970 Hemi Challengers to a few people that like to collect this information. Barry Washington, Ola Nilsson Dan Pausch are a few of them. We all like to collect information for the joy of doing it. I have never sent anything to someone that charges for information. Some one might have to step up and run a 1970 Hemi E Body Registry or collect information on just the RTSE 1970 Hemi Challenger.Someone might just have to feed Ola or Dan or Barry so they can keep track of this information or give the information to all of them.

I use to collect information on all Hemi Cars built and all A12 Cars built and all 440-6 cars built.It became overwhelming. Years ago like 10 years I gave all my Hemi E Body Convertible information to Ola Nilsson. He does a great job with his registry and so does Barry Washington on his site. I collect 1971 Hemi E Body Hardtop information. There is about 200 Vehicles to collect information on and I have not found all of the 1971 Hemi E Bodies and have been doing this since the seventies when I bought my 1971 Hemi Challenger and started to collect this information. All that collect and run a registry need help from the Mopar Hobbyist with information, we can not be all over the world collecting this stuff and need help no matter how small the information seems.

This is the percentage of each model with the gator grain top- interesting to note (but maybe not surprising) that the gator top production on an SE or R/T SE was basically triple that of a base model or R/T.

1970 Dodge Challenger:
Challenger (JH23)- 2.5% or 963 approx
Challenger SE (JH29) - 8% or 489 approx.
Challenger R/T (JS23) - 2.3 % or 314 approx.
Challenger R/T SE (JS29) - 7.5% or 281 approx.

Using bad math there would be ~4 HEMI R/T SE Challengers with a Gator Grain Top.

top was STANDARD on a SE, 100% had them (must code choice of available colors: white, black, green, gator) & OPTIONAL on others

OK Dan I'll play

What % of JH23 and JS23 cars had a vinyl top?

In Don Garlits Museum, back in the early/mid '90s, there was a '70 B5 Hemi Challenger with a Gator Grain Top. I don't recall if it was a SE.
Since the hood was closed I couldn't see the fender tag, so I don't know if it was an original GGT or if was even a real Hemi Challenger.
I know one thing that was not original on it, some one had added a Hemicuda hockey stick .

I never noticed the hockey stick on that car, you can just barely see it in this picture-

JS23 & a vinyl top = 64.1%
JH23 & a vinyl top = 69.1%

& I'd consider the "gator grain" top more of a fashion statement - Chrysler's art department answer to the "Mod Top" for 1970

also notice that the V1T "tan" top from '69 is no longer an OPTION & spring of '70 the Fury Gran Coupe came out with its "brown" paisley patterned vinyl top.

Dan, I agree with what you posted, but a couple or things of note. Gator Tops were actually a spring special on the 1969 Monaco and Polara. Not sure if there was a Plymouth version off the top of my head.

I think the 1970 version of the paisley top was called "Walnut Patterned" top, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

1969 Dodge Polara ad showing the Gator top at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/vintage-advertising/1969/69_dodge_polara_gator_top.jpg

The shadow directions are quite different if you compare the golfer's shadows to the shadow around the car too, so I suspect some visual modifications to the image. ;-)

The two page Dodge PIB shows the Gator top availability on Monaco & Polara. It is dated April 7, 1969.

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/_1969-Dodge-PIB-01.shtml?load_img=19

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/_1969-Dodge-PIB-01.shtml?load_img=20

Thanks Barry

So that indicates that a higher proportion of SE's had the GG top which keeps in step with it being an "upscale" type option. Cool data!