Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2178751
10/19/16 08:31 PM
10/19/16 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I've heard issues before with it hard getting all the air out when bleeding brakes using DOT5. I've only used it once before, when I changed out a bunch of components like calipers and MC in my brakes, and switched over to 5 from 3 at the same time, and don't recall any issues. That was in the 90s though. I used fluid that had been sitting, didn't jostle it around or shake it before pouring into the reservoir. I've heard people letting the container sit in the sun before using, I didn't do that. I just now tried putting plugs into the fittings instead of the fittings with the lines. Pushed the pistons forward and got a few little bubbles rising from the fill port in the primary reservoir the first time or two I pushed, then no more bubbles. Got fluid shooting out of the fill port in the secondary. I could only push the pistons about a 1/4 inch forward with the outlets plugged. Been doing this outside, getting dark, and I may call it a day with this. Let it sit and see if I get better results tomorrow evening after letting it rest. ![shruggy shruggy](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/shruggy.gif)
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2178757
10/19/16 08:45 PM
10/19/16 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
minivan
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I've heard issues before with it hard getting all the air out when bleeding brakes using DOT5. I've only used it once before, when I changed out a bunch of components like calipers and MC in my brakes, and switched over to 5 from 3 at the same time, and don't recall any issues. That was in the 90s though. I used fluid that had been sitting, didn't jostle it around or shake it before pouring into the reservoir. I've heard people letting the container sit in the sun before using, I didn't do that. I just now tried putting plugs into the fittings instead of the fittings with the lines. Pushed the pistons forward and got a few little bubbles rising from the fill port in the primary reservoir the first time or two I pushed, then no more bubbles. Got fluid shooting out of the fill port in the secondary. I could only push the pistons about a 1/4 inch forward with the outlets plugged. Been doing this outside, getting dark, and I may call it a day with this. Let it sit and see if I get better results tomorrow evening after letting it rest. I have used dot 5 in everything I could, heck even my 97 Harley came with it stock... Never had troubles with it like I have read on this site.... Not criticizing you, just saying it oughta be OK.....
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Diplomat440]
#2178832
10/19/16 11:00 PM
10/19/16 11:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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the neverending stream of bubbles would have to be coming either from the threaded fitting (you might daub it with something to see if it gets sucked in) or from the rear seal
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2178871
10/19/16 11:58 PM
10/19/16 11:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I ain't an engineer but I would think a vacuum could pull air in past the seals much easier than fairly viscous fluid could seep past em but yes I would more suspect the threaded fitting(s). post what it ends up being
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: biggE]
#2179073
10/20/16 12:11 PM
10/20/16 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Crook County, ILL
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I used to work for an aftermarket brake parts manufacturer, and EPDM rubber seals are compatible with both conventional and silicon brake fluid. Just don't let them near any petroleum based fluids! We made brake cylinders for government applications like military and USPS and they used DOT 5, we used the same EPDM seals for those products. But yes, the fact these seals are old concerned me, but I disassembled the MC before adding fluid, and the seals were soft and pliable, no oxidation or stiffening from aging that I would be worried I might find. So I decided I trusted these vintage Bendix seals more than rebuilding with new Made in China seals. But it is still possible the seals have a problem being decades old. The only seal that could possibly allow any air to enter would be the one by the bore on the primary piston, and that is a pretty wide surface area seal. The cups on the front of the pistons are usually the ones that are first to go bad, as they are smaller and build pressure when brake pedal pressure is applied. I found this article on DOT5 which is interesting, especially on the subject of air entrapment with it. I wasn't especially gentle dumping the fluid into the reservoirs, so maybe that caused problems? Though the secondary stopped getting any air quickly. http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/Brake_Fluid/page4.html
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2184009
10/27/16 07:40 PM
10/27/16 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Following up on my MC bleeding issue. I called it a day last week after posting, and between work and working on a number of other things on my project including installing the exhaust last weekend, didn't look at the MC again until today. I removed the plugs in the connectors I had in the outlets, and installed the clear lines from the NAPA bleeding kit, and slowly pushed the piston in a few times until fluid started coming out. Other than a few small bubbles in the secondary outlet, no air! Letting it sit dispersed the entrapped air or something I don't know. But at least the master cylinder seems bled now. Now I have to worry about charging and bleeding my virgin brake system. I've started gravity bleeding but so far little or no fluid seems to be draining from the reservoirs. Not sure what to expect here, I've never done a system from scratch. Replaced Calipers many times, other times wheel cylinders, lines etc, never had trouble, so hoping this works out for me!
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2184170
10/27/16 10:25 PM
10/27/16 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791 Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
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Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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The fluid in the reservior need time to sit. This allows bubbles to float to the surface before it gets pushed down into the system.
Gravity bleed is ok for maintenance but I'd do the traditional pump, push, open bleeder method for a new system.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: Master cylinder bleeding question
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2184212
10/27/16 11:05 PM
10/27/16 11:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I've started gravity bleeding but so far little or no fluid seems to be draining from the reservoirs. Not sure what to expect here, As said above I'd either regular bleed or at least several strokes to get the fluid flowing first. then a gravity bleed as needed. Calipers might need "regular" bleeding to get a big chunk of air out of there. I have a helper pump the pedal vigorously several times then hold it down & with perfect timing as he is on the 3rd downstroke I crack the bleeder which greatly helps to get the agitated air/fluid mixture out of there. wheel cyls might not need that turbulence.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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