Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175567
10/15/16 10:43 PM
10/15/16 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396 The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396
The Pale Blue Dot
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The only way to bill it out is BY THE HOUR! Spend some time putting everything out on paper, then double the time you think it will take. Double that again. \Talk to your potential customer, lay out the build plan, what you will do and the estimated times. Broken, rusty, greasy, mismatched parts are HIS problem not yours- don't let that change. This is a lot of work and plenty of room for failure. One thing I will throw out, call a few quality shops in your area and ask what their posted rate is, you can add 50% for custom work. The last shop I worked in was $85/hour and that was 10 years ago. Also, NO WARRANTY on customer supplied parts. That markup is to CYA when something breaks.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175606
10/15/16 11:42 PM
10/15/16 11:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840 The Swamp
Sixpak
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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What's the donor vehicle - B or C body? And before I even touched that job I'd make sure the donor stuff is good before turning a single wrench, meaning it drives, shifts, doesn't overheat, etc; otherwise the finger pointing can ensue and you may be asked to fix a lot of stuff that wasn't part of the swap. Even to do a compression test, tune up and trans filter/band adjustment while it's still in the wagon, fresh carb rebuild if needed, etc. CYA...shake out any problems before pulling it from the wagon, while it's in the wagon. And double check the exhaust manifolds if you're reusing C body - because B and C body are going to be different. I seem to recall C body exiting on the driver side at a different angle than a B body.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175609
10/15/16 11:45 PM
10/15/16 11:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I swapped my 72 Dart from /6 to 360. My donor was a 79 Cordoba, so not much of a donor for this type of swap.
I had almost everything all lined up before hand, took me a Sunday to do it.
But I had to swap K members, no conversion mounts in 93.
Did it in a carport with a few air tools but mostly hand tools.
I pulled the 360/a999 out of the Doba aforehand, cleaned it up, inspected it, regasketed it and painted it before the Sunday thrash.
What I did not have before hand was the proper throttle cable, though the /6 one worked, a kickdown that worked in an A body, boneyard F body supplied it on Monday, and an exhaust, rigged up a temporary one using the Doba's manifolds and Y pipe till I could get it to the muffler shop.
So, 8 hours for the swap at $100/hr is $800, not sure where triple that is coming from. at $30/hr that's $240 worth of labor, not sure where 10x that is coming from either.
What, exactly, is the donor? Cause if it's a 70 B wagon it's a simple swap.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175619
10/15/16 11:59 PM
10/15/16 11:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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thank you Skeptic and Sixpak thats how ive been thinking. Supercuda, you need to reread the post. its not just an install. donor is a '73 B Satellite wagon i have early motor mounts ('73 is a spool mount IIRC)
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Brian_wo]
#2175637
10/16/16 12:37 AM
10/16/16 12:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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Wow and I thought the shops were crooks.
Flat rate of $30hr and he pays for parts. Actually the most reasonable local shop here charges double that plus 15 $ more. You can bet the parts cost extra. Don't know of any shop that would install your parts. None would touch a swap with a used motor or trans either. Liability issues prevent that stuff. Those would have to be shipped to the local re-builder. Also on your dime. Several grand there alone.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175781
10/16/16 07:08 AM
10/16/16 07:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 926 MICHIGAN
BB65Barracuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 926
MICHIGAN
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Schumacher conversion mounts if its a small/6 cylinder K member. Lokar or equivalent trans kick down and accelerator cable set up. B Body headers. 26 inch radiator . original trans mount should work. Try doing this in a early A body car. This car is a breeze. Should be done and driving in three days tops.
1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175816
10/16/16 08:27 AM
10/16/16 08:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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thank you Skeptic and Sixpak thats how ive been thinking. Supercuda, you need to reread the post. its not just an install. donor is a '73 B Satellite wagon i have early motor mounts ('73 is a spool mount IIRC) Hmm, musta misunderstood this: what would be labor for just removal of both and reinstall the big block into the '70?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175820
10/16/16 08:34 AM
10/16/16 08:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 937 own private Idaho
ngpSatellite
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
own private Idaho
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4K easy ... I did this on my 67 Satellite and you would be surprised the detail and all the little bugs to work out to make it turnkey... just MHO... the fun just begins when you drop the BB in !!
Last edited by ngpSatellite; 10/16/16 08:43 AM.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2175831
10/16/16 08:42 AM
10/16/16 08:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,422 ohio
ruderunner
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,422
ohio
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73 b body is quite different from 70. Motor mount is definitely different. Trans mount too. 73 radiator and shroud are different, can be made to work but takes time. Exhaust manifold should be OK, engine accessories should work but iirc PS mount may be a problem. If the wagon has ac, its all different, get a correct 70 bb setup. Big block t bars will be good to have but the 73 don't fit. I agree to get the engine and trans functioning in the wagon first. I'd pull the wagon drivetrains and let the owner clean and detail it as desired. That way you can push the wagon out, the sattelite can stay drivable and you don't have a cluster in your shop. Figure 4-6 hours pulling parts from the wagon. Pulling the drive train from the sattelite about 3-4 hours, figure 6-8 for install. If transmission is different between vehicles (904 vs727) you will need to adjust the driveshaft. The 73 isn't the right length.
Cleaning and detailing the engine compartment is gonna eat up a day at least.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Supercuda]
#2176446
10/16/16 09:31 PM
10/16/16 09:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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thank you Skeptic and Sixpak thats how ive been thinking. Supercuda, you need to reread the post. its not just an install. donor is a '73 B Satellite wagon i have early motor mounts ('73 is a spool mount IIRC) Hmm, musta misunderstood this: what would be labor for just removal of both and reinstall the big block into the '70? supercuda, thanks for answering my original post question.(many have completely avoided posting dollar/labor numbers) are you sticking with it being an 8 hour job though? what to do about the trans mount? copper
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2176483
10/16/16 09:54 PM
10/16/16 09:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Not sure how applicable it may be to you since it was a /6 to LA swap in an A body, but just trying to give you an idea.
I had pretty much everything lined up before the swap, including the engine from the donor pulled, cleaned, regasketed, rebearinged, new core plugs and painted. So whatever time needs to be added for that, I forget as it was over a couple days I did that. Probably another 6-8 there if you are working alone with hand tools only.
Mount location is in the same spot as far as I know, just bolt the 70 mount to the 73 trans, Rockauto shows the 70 trans mount the same regardless of engine choice. But the 73 is the spool type, if the 73 trans crossmember will bolt in (not a B body guy so I dunno) I'd prefer the 73 type trans mount myself.
So my 8 hours to swap was the physical part of actually pulling the /6 out and putting the prepped 360 in, I did spend a few hours getting all the stuff I thought I would need gathered up beforehand (radiator, K member, engine mounts, hoses, belts, etc). Being an A body guy I had pretty much already known what I needed to do this swap so planning/research time was already done. The only help I got during the swap was I had my old man help me pull the hood before he left for work and put it back on when he got home.
I few things almost bit me, the Dart had working AC, the 79 Doba had AC too, but the compressor is in different locations and the /6 hoses would not mount up to the compressor on the /360, wrong lengths. But the Doba's hoses did, so I lucked out there. Some of the wires needed a bit of addressing, coil + wire is all I remember specifically, it was way long. I think all the rest just fell into place, but I can tell you the wiring there for an LA to RB swap will require lengthening. Alternator wiring pretty much fit.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: BIG BLOCK SWAP
[Re: Copper Dart]
#2176534
10/16/16 10:36 PM
10/16/16 10:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520 West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
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supercuda, thanks for taking the time to respond and advise! it certainly is going to be an adventure.
Common sense, the least common of all the senses. Mom.
For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity. Ricky Valdes
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