Brake Booster Problems
#2164187
09/29/16 08:48 AM
09/29/16 08:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216 united kingdom
Simonic
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I've recently changed the front brakes on my 68 Superbee from the factory drums to a single piston disc conversion. I have continued to use the std master cylinder and booster. When travelling at high speed for any length of time I get a vibration thru the steering wheel.If I apply the brakes the vibration stops and then returns a few moments later. If I pull over to the side of the road the wheel centres feel warm(not too hot to touch) I'm thinking that the vacuum is causing the brakes to apply very slightly when i'm driving. With the booster disconnected there is no problem. So.Should I have changed the booster/master cylinder when I did the conversion? If so what should I have changed to ? Thank You gentlemen
Keeping the Bee Buzzin'
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: fastmark]
#2164306
09/29/16 12:49 PM
09/29/16 12:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
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master
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Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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We bought a 69 Charger race car with a factory drum brake master and the previous owner changed to 70 disc up front. The drum brake masters have a check valve that keeps the fuild pressure from bleeding back down and keeps the shoes close to the drums. If it didn't, you would have a soft pedal. As the drums get hot they expand away from the shoes. Disc brake masters do not have this check valve. They must bleed off the pressure when you let up in the brake. If it does not bleed off, the rotor gets warm, expands into the pads, and slightly applies the brakes without you pushing the pedal down. We changed to a modern aluminum master for disc and picked up a tenth in et and 2 mph in the quarter mile! Just change to a disc brake master cly. Dr diff sells the one you need. That's true but I doubt it's causing that amount of vibration
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: Simonic]
#2164351
09/29/16 01:37 PM
09/29/16 01:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216 united kingdom
Simonic
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Thank you everybody. I'll check all the things you have all suggested. I guess I'm likely to need some new parts here. Thanks again Simon
Keeping the Bee Buzzin'
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: fastmark]
#2164409
09/29/16 03:03 PM
09/29/16 03:03 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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We bought a 69 Charger race car with a factory drum brake master and the previous owner changed to 70 disc up front. The drum brake masters have a check valve that keeps the fuild pressure from bleeding back down and keeps the shoes close to the drums. If it didn't, you would have a soft pedal. As the drums get hot they expand away from the shoes. Disc brake masters do not have this check valve. They must bleed off the pressure when you let up in the brake. If it does not bleed off, the rotor gets warm, expands into the pads, and slightly applies the brakes without you pushing the pedal down. We changed to a modern aluminum master for disc and picked up a tenth in et and 2 mph in the quarter mile! Just change to a disc brake master cly. Dr diff sells the one you need. You absolutely need to change to a master cyl designed for front Disk Brakes / rear Drum Brakes. Dr. Diff sells a good one with an adapter to fit the original four hole design to the two mounting hole Aluminum master cyl and he has available an adjustable pushrod to with it. I bought the kit for my Ramcharger from him...one of the good guys!
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: Simonic]
#2165135
09/30/16 02:42 PM
09/30/16 02:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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with the booster disconnected there is no problem. that is what Sherlock Holmes (from your neck of the woods) would call a (significant) clue. how are you checking it with the booster disconnected? I would as said check the brake assys for anything loose/rubbing & first I would check the booster pushrod round nub clearance into the MC rear piston "thimble" bottom. (want ~.020"). holler back when you can.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2197311
11/16/16 12:59 PM
11/16/16 12:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216 united kingdom
Simonic
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Hi Robert, With the booster disconnected I don't get the vibration. I do know what the booster pushrod nub is and I understand that I need clearance but I've no idea how to check it. The engine makes a lot of vacuum and even the lightest pressure on the brake with the booster connected gives some sharp braking. One theory that has been given to me is that the actual weight of the pedal is pressing on the brake slightly and this combined with the sharpness of the vacuum is applying the brake slightly.What do you think? I've relized that changing the master cylinder is a good idea and I will try to find a stock looking replacement,however should I replace the booster also?The one which is on is the one that came with the car and is of a split two piece design with a clamping ring and the diaphragm in between. Sorry it's taken a little while to gwt back to you.I've been busy getting the car ready for the Classic and Sportscar Show at the NEC
Keeping the Bee Buzzin'
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: Simonic]
#2197338
11/16/16 02:12 PM
11/16/16 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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No rush, here we have nothing but time. lets see if we can fix what we have right now. You would measure the depth of the rear piston "thimble" recess in the back of the MC with a spare engine pushrod out to the flat MC flange then measure the distance the rounded booster rod threaded nub is protruding out from the booster flat flange & you want that dimention to be ~.020" less than the thimble depth. A bit more than 020 is OK but not less than 020
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: TJP]
#2197347
11/16/16 02:33 PM
11/16/16 02:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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excellent point on the RPV potential. take the line off from the large MC (disc half) port next to the firewall & stick a drill bit into the brass cone & you will feel it if it has one, it is just a piece of neoprene on top of a spring, a crude 1 way check valve but it is enough to cause havoc on a disc system. EDIT correction: stick the bit into the smaller drum port as that is the one that might have it, the disc half would not have one
Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/16/16 03:11 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Brake Booster Problems
[Re: Simonic]
#2197353
11/16/16 03:03 PM
11/16/16 03:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216 united kingdom
Simonic
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Thank you both gentlemen. I'll get on with it
Keeping the Bee Buzzin'
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