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Re: BFG TA [Re: TJP] #2151435
09/10/16 01:32 AM
09/10/16 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
RJS Offline
master
RJS  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
Originally Posted By TJP
I run a restoration shop and buy several sets of tires a year through various sources. What have noted in the last year or so is that the Coker tires are no longer bundled together but wrapped separately to prevent the transfer of pigment to the RWL or whitewalls. Hmm just an observation and we have bright white RWL's and whitewalls whistling shruggy popcorn


Means nothing, the two sets that just did this to me were sent separate with the blue/green soap on the letters. Washed them with nothing more than soap and water to make them bright clean White and they turned brown after being driven.
Ron

Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2151486
09/10/16 05:55 AM
09/10/16 05:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
S
Sxrxrnr Offline
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Sxrxrnr  Offline
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S

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Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
I have been fighting the good fight on this issue for 2 years now. Have spoken to Michelin, owner of Goodrich numerous times. Gotten all types of stories, none admitting that the have a problem.

Posted on many forums including this one. Been told that I do not know how to detail tires, been told to use this chemical product or that one. Believe me, I have used them all,,even sandpaper and pumice.

I've run these tires for for 40 years. Until recently I had no issues with the letter discoloration.

The last set I purchased for my 1971 Corvette 275's and 255's immediately turned brown. Replaced all 4 of them twice,,,,as soon as the blue protective coating has been removed they start to discolor to brown.

I have 2 friends with Mopars place 275's rear 235's front. 275's immediately turn brown, 235's remain white.

Current belief is that Michelin changed formula for the rubber for whatever inane purpose on their larger tires,,,smaller one's likely later will be hit.

As soon as blue protectant is removed and air hits the white, a chemical reaction occurrs,,,,think what happens when you slice an apple or a pear and leave it set out for a bit.

I have posted photos earlier in this thread. Take a look at photos of some TA's that are likely 15 years old,,,,Snow White. Take a look at almost new TA's ,,,toasty brown.

I have a major show coming up, I now will be flipping the white letters in as what I now have is so embarrassing and people suspect you are a lousy at detailing.

Here are a couple of photos taken today. By the way, the best I have dreamed up for cleaning the letters to somewhat white, is a buffing tool like a Dremel or an air powered,,,using a white dry pad. Goof off works somewhat but not near as well. Both very tedious and temporary.

The final photo is of a 235/60 on a friend's RR. His rear 275/60's are as brown as mine. All bought same time from Discount Tire in Az.

I have now installed bias Polyglas GT's on my Challenger. Goodrich TA's are no longer for me after some 40 plus years of happy use.

By the way, I am now convinced that not only the raised white letter turn brown,,,but the black on the tires also do. You just don't see it and tire conditioners clean them up, whereas does nothing for the white lettering.

These issues could also be manufacturing plant specific,,,some 7 plants produce these tires, perhaps more. Mine are out of Ardmore Ok. I say avoid this plant,,,but again perhaps they are all bad. Dot code on tires will give plant I'd.

I suspect they have added silicone to their rubber causing the air related browning. Likely for some manufacturing efficiency or some such reason,,,likely to make a few more bucks.

If you do purchase, I recommend your local supplier, not online as if warranty replacement is sought, freight shipping and mounting charges will eat you up. Sorry Tire Rack.

Forgot to mention. I no longer believe that browning is caused in this case by the oils in the tires by osmosis working its way up into and thru the lettering. I am now convinced that Michelin has reformulated their rubber. I have certain evidence for this revised opinion.

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 09/10/16 06:36 AM. Reason: Addition
Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2151547
09/10/16 11:21 AM
09/10/16 11:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336
Ball Ground, Georgia
Dixie Offline
top fuel
Dixie  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336
Ball Ground, Georgia
"If you do purchase, I recommend your local supplier, not online as if warranty replacement is sought, freight shipping and mounting charges will eat you up. Sorry Tire Rack. "

This is what got me. I used points and ordered off Amazon. SOL on warranty.


Dixie Restoration Parts
Phone -(770) 975-9898
Phone Hours: M-F 10am-5pm EST
website: www.dixierestorationparts.com
email: mail@dixierestorationparts.com
Veteran owned small business

The Best Parts at a Fair Price.
Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2151552
09/10/16 11:32 AM
09/10/16 11:32 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
super stock
Iowan  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
I'm glad I run mine black out!


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: BFG TA [Re: Iowan] #2151692
09/10/16 04:01 PM
09/10/16 04:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
M
minivan Offline
master
minivan  Offline
master
M

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
I concur with all on here...

Noticed mine have been turning brown for a few years now...

DSCF0158.JPG
Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2151761
09/10/16 06:22 PM
09/10/16 06:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Didn't Coker offshore tire making to somewhere in eastern Europe? Poland rings a bell for some reason.

I googled but couldn't find anything one way or the other.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: BFG TA [Re: Sxrxrnr] #2151979
09/11/16 12:13 AM
09/11/16 12:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
RJS Offline
master
RJS  Offline
master

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Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
Originally Posted By Sxrxrnr
I have been fighting the good fight on this issue for 2 years now. Have spoken to Michelin, owner of Goodrich numerous times. Gotten all types of stories, none admitting that the have a problem.

Posted on many forums including this one. Been told that I do not know how to detail tires, been told to use this chemical product or that one. Believe me, I have used them all,,even sandpaper and pumice.

I've run these tires for for 40 years. Until recently I had no issues with the letter discoloration.

The last set I purchased for my 1971 Corvette 275's and 255's immediately turned brown. Replaced all 4 of them twice,,,,as soon as the blue protective coating has been removed they start to discolor to brown.

I have 2 friends with Mopars place 275's rear 235's front. 275's immediately turn brown, 235's remain white.

Current belief is that Michelin changed formula for the rubber for whatever inane purpose on their larger tires,,,smaller one's likely later will be hit.

As soon as blue protectant is removed and air hits the white, a chemical reaction occurrs,,,,think what happens when you slice an apple or a pear and leave it set out for a bit.

I have posted photos earlier in this thread. Take a look at photos of some TA's that are likely 15 years old,,,,Snow White. Take a look at almost new TA's ,,,toasty brown.

I have a major show coming up, I now will be flipping the white letters in as what I now have is so embarrassing and people suspect you are a lousy at detailing.

Here are a couple of photos taken today. By the way, the best I have dreamed up for cleaning the letters to somewhat white, is a buffing tool like a Dremel or an air powered,,,using a white dry pad. Goof off works somewhat but not near as well. Both very tedious and temporary.

The final photo is of a 235/60 on a friend's RR. His rear 275/60's are as brown as mine. All bought same time from Discount Tire in Az.

I have now installed bias Polyglas GT's on my Challenger. Goodrich TA's are no longer for me after some 40 plus years of happy use.

By the way, I am now convinced that not only the raised white letter turn brown,,,but the black on the tires also do. You just don't see it and tire conditioners clean them up, whereas does nothing for the white lettering.

These issues could also be manufacturing plant specific,,,some 7 plants produce these tires, perhaps more. Mine are out of Ardmore Ok. I say avoid this plant,,,but again perhaps they are all bad. Dot code on tires will give plant I'd.

I suspect they have added silicone to their rubber causing the air related browning. Likely for some manufacturing efficiency or some such reason,,,likely to make a few more bucks.

If you do purchase, I recommend your local supplier, not online as if warranty replacement is sought, freight shipping and mounting charges will eat you up. Sorry Tire Rack.

Forgot to mention. I no longer believe that browning is caused in this case by the oils in the tires by osmosis working its way up into and thru the lettering. I am now convinced that Michelin has reformulated their rubber. I have certain evidence for this revised opinion.


Update for me: Last night I used a Chemical I had on the shelf MEK and it got them the cleanest so far. Still not as White as front but livable, how long they will last is probably hours but I haven't taken the car out yet to see.
Also the backside turn completely Brown also as you mentioned.
Ron

Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2151981
09/11/16 12:15 AM
09/11/16 12:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
I hope you wore protective gloves, MEK is some nasty stuff.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2152226
09/11/16 11:40 AM
09/11/16 11:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog Offline
mopar
racerhog  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
We just repainted then back in the day.... Now you have the pin... smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-Wcl99RlDs


Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2154397
09/14/16 02:41 PM
09/14/16 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
RJS Offline
master
RJS  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
Well I just pulled the trigger on a new set of GoodYear Poly Glass. I had used ones on the car before these T/A's and know the problems but that look is just Perfection!!!
Ron

Re: BFG TA [Re: Dons Dart] #2154941
09/15/16 07:30 AM
09/15/16 07:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
S
Sxrxrnr Offline
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Sxrxrnr  Offline
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S

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
Yesterday switched the RWL's(or should I say raised brown letters) to the inside on my 71 Vette.

May end up looking ok once I live with them awhile. Certainly much better than the frustrating mis mash I have been living with.

Yes the insides that are now outside had a strong brownish cast. Some scurbhing with simple green and coating with 303 Protectsnt took care of that.

There is no doubt that Michelin has changed the BFG recipe. They still fail to acknowledge it.

Coker does not make these tires.

Re: BFG TA [Re: Sxrxrnr] #2160869
09/24/16 02:38 PM
09/24/16 02:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
X
xs29l9g Offline
member
xs29l9g  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
ron, I too bought a set of bfg's, due to the fact my Dunlop gt qualifiers were turning brown and couldn't get them white,and they were 20 years old with 1500 miles on them. I run 255/60 rear, and 245/60 frt. anyway, my point is the letter fonts. the 245's and 1 255 had one style font, the other 255 different. nobody at bfg could explain. tried multiple sources, paying shipping etc,with no luck. tire rack said they had 44 in stock, so I asked sales rep if they could send someone into warehouse to look at fonts and hand pick. they said they couldn't,too dangerous,tire racks are up to 2 stories high. (well then how do they get when they sell?) 2 sales reps, 6 calls begging, no luck, they suck,will never buy another tire from them again, and tell my customers the same. called a fairly local supplier,(have to pay higher price). tell some sweet young sounding girl my dilemma, she says she has 11 in stock. within an hr I have correct tire in hand( after 4 weeks). also date coding , and plant codes no help, had 2 with identical numbers and different fonts. this is my last set of bfg's. gregg

Re: BFG TA [Re: xs29l9g] #2160906
09/24/16 03:39 PM
09/24/16 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
RJS Offline
master
RJS  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,224
JERSEY
Originally Posted By xs29l9g
ron, I too bought a set of bfg's, due to the fact my Dunlop gt qualifiers were turning brown and couldn't get them white,and they were 20 years old with 1500 miles on them. I run 255/60 rear, and 245/60 frt. anyway, my point is the letter fonts. the 245's and 1 255 had one style font, the other 255 different. nobody at bfg could explain. tried multiple sources, paying shipping etc,with no luck. tire rack said they had 44 in stock, so I asked sales rep if they could send someone into warehouse to look at fonts and hand pick. they said they couldn't,too dangerous,tire racks are up to 2 stories high. (well then how do they get when they sell?) 2 sales reps, 6 calls begging, no luck, they suck,will never buy another tire from them again, and tell my customers the same. called a fairly local supplier,(have to pay higher price). tell some sweet young sounding girl my dilemma, she says she has 11 in stock. within an hr I have correct tire in hand( after 4 weeks). also date coding , and plant codes no help, had 2 with identical numbers and different fonts. this is my last set of bfg's. gregg


Yep T/A Radials WERE my go to tire but no more. Letters browning that they never heard of and letters with different font will be THEIR problem in the future not mine.
Ron

IMG_1553 (Large).JPG
Re: BFG TA [Re: RJS] #2160953
09/24/16 04:53 PM
09/24/16 04:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 18,157
Mass
I don't know?, I have to laugh somewhat reading this thread again, and I'll say it again, every white wall or white lettered tire I've had has "browned" whether it's on the car in use, or sitting in the cellar or garage, been like this since the 60's having to clean browned white walls or white lettered tires on an occasional basis


If you want the letters bleached bright white, use Tri-Chlorethelene, on the white portion only with clean white rags

Re: BFG TA [Re: DAYCLONA] #2160961
09/24/16 05:07 PM
09/24/16 05:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
E
ek3 Offline
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E

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Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
I have also cleaned them forever .... I do think they have made big changes with respect to the u/v breakdown of the rubber in modern tires and that may very well be why it happens so much faster .

Re: BFG TA [Re: ek3] #2161081
09/24/16 10:09 PM
09/24/16 10:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
X
xs29l9g Offline
member
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X

Joined: Dec 2012
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massachusetts
mike, my [censored] isn't so much the browning..i actually think armorall etc accelerates it. im complaining of 2 obviously different fonts, on 2 of the same coded tires( plants,weeks,etc) and bfg( michellin ) cant say why? or acknowledge even a problem. their resolve was "we will sell you 2 wrong tires, so your car looks like sh..crap from both sides. that would be styling on the watermelon, gregg

Re: BFG TA [Re: xs29l9g] #2161088
09/24/16 10:17 PM
09/24/16 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
X
xs29l9g Offline
member
xs29l9g  Offline
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X

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
ron, sweet ssp?

Re: BFG TA [Re: xs29l9g] #2161096
09/24/16 10:29 PM
09/24/16 10:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
Originally Posted By xs29l9g
mike, my [censored] isn't so much the browning..i actually think armorall etc accelerates it. im complaining of 2 obviously different fonts, on 2 of the same coded tires( plants,weeks,etc) and bfg( michellin ) cant say why? or acknowledge even a problem. their resolve was "we will sell you 2 wrong tires, so your car looks like sh..crap from both sides. that would be styling on the watermelon, gregg




Never had BFG's on the Mellon? only early non sized GoodYear Polyglas F-60/15 for show, or for street use GoodYear Eagle GT II...both tire sets brown as well....while I've put radial BFG's on other's rides, I personally stopped using BFG's when the BFG Belted T/A went out of production

Re: BFG TA [Re: DAYCLONA] #2161157
09/25/16 01:09 AM
09/25/16 01:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
X
xs29l9g Offline
member
xs29l9g  Offline
member
X

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 53
massachusetts
mike, easy, not being critical. im only talking about mismatch fonts, and no answers for it, un acceptable. if bfg wants to change the lettering font, that's fine, just make people aware. obviously one reason michellin keeps it alive is for specialty car market.but this no customer service from them or their vendors is bs. bring on cooper or who ever else wants to step up. not all of us want to drive around on bias ply, nor feel the need to buy a coker radial! ( no dig intended). gregg

Re: BFG TA [Re: DAYCLONA] #2161193
09/25/16 02:49 AM
09/25/16 02:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
S
Sxrxrnr Offline
pro stock
Sxrxrnr  Offline
pro stock
S

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
I don't know?, I have to laugh somewhat reading this thread again, and I'll say it again, every white wall or white lettered tire I've had has "browned" whether it's on the car in use, or sitting in the cellar or garage, been like this since the 60's having to clean browned white walls or white lettered tires on an occasional basis


If you want the letters bleached bright white, use Tri-Chlorethelene, on the white portion only with clean white rags


Diamondback ww's on my 300b are close to 15 years old. Perfectly white ww's. Use SOS pads to clean and have used a 1/2 dozen other products. No matter what I use always perfect outcome.

Goodyear Eagle Gt 11 tires just replaced on our 70 Challenger with Polyglass Gt's. Perfect raised white letters on both versions of Goodyears.

Ran TA's for 40 years on different cars. Never a complaint on RWL's at all. Now every radial TA I acquired last 3 years are brown letters.

Diamondbacks on wife's 55 T bird,,,ww's perfect.

Michelin has changed the TA rubber formula. Yes Michelin now manufacturers TA's,,,,,,,not Coker.

I have after 3 sets on my 71 Vette have given up on Goodrich/Michelin. Have now reversed whl's to inside with Blackwell out. Never thought I would ever curse Michelin but they have let us down and when you call them they will plead ignorance. Would make Bernie Maddof turn green with envy.

So far however it appears that the sizes smaller than 255/60's are shipping ok. Possibly old inventory. 255's and 275's are complete junk.

I suggest you go back thru this thread and have another look at the tire photos before suggesting again that some of us do not have a clue when to comes to detailing tires.

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 09/26/16 05:17 AM. Reason: Typo
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