Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
#2160647
09/24/16 02:59 AM
09/24/16 02:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 247 Brisbane Australia
crash520
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I've now put my D60 I put together in the Cuda and just want you guys to cast your eye over the angles please, below is what I now have, basically the pinion angle is 3.7* nose down compared to the engine center line. Most all drawings indicate the driveshaft points down from the trans, on these Cuda's it actually points up and in my case 2.7* and from there my pinion is 1.0* to the driveshaft totaling 3.7* its a leaf spring car, new 3 1/2" balanced driveshaft with 1350 joints and so on. At speed on the interstate Im getting some vibration, only small but its there, I didn't have it before I changed the diff over and went from a 3.23 ratio to now a 3.73, wheels and tires are still the same, only new diff and driveshaft. Greg
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160668
09/24/16 05:21 AM
09/24/16 05:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
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jbc426
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I'm far from a guru, but I can regurgitate what Dr Diff taught me.
First though, confirm the centerline of the pinion shaft is at a -3.7* nose down angle in relation to the crankshaft/trans centerline measured at 0*?
What traction control device are you running, if any: Pinion snubber, Caltracs or slapper bars?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160688
09/24/16 08:57 AM
09/24/16 08:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
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ruderunner
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With what you have now vibration is likely. Driveshaft u joint angles should be equal but opposite. Or said simply, to alleviate vibration you should turn the pinion up (to zero) or figure out how to raise the tailshaft of the trans.
Is the car lowered? Bringing up rear ride height can help the angle between trans and driveshaft.
You are correct on wanting the pinion to point down as it will rotate up under load, how much depends on lots of variables though. But its not gonna happen without some vibration or other changes.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160813
09/24/16 01:05 PM
09/24/16 01:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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Just me I would remeasure & use horizontle as a baseline rather than engine/trans CL & you want minimal angles & as said for them to be opposite so for instance if the trans output shaft angle is 1.5 one way then you would want the pinion to be 1.5 the other way (parallel but in different planes) plus a bit more down from that cuz of the rise on accell, maybe 1-2 more depending on the app
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160818
09/24/16 01:13 PM
09/24/16 01:13 PM
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Posts: 348 Texas Hill Country
Centerline
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This is the best guide to setting up the driveline angles for a street driven vehicle I've ever found. These guys are very knowledgeable. I've used their procedures on every car I've ever setup and never had a vibration problem. Power Train Angles
Centerline 64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast 99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160833
09/24/16 01:44 PM
09/24/16 01:44 PM
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Hemi_Joel
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You are correct in the way you have set the pinion angle in relation to the transmission. The problem is that the ujoint angles at rest are too close to zero. So angling the pinion down 3.7 degrees puts the ujoint angles at odds with each other at cruising speed, but then under full throttle , the pinion will rise and swing the rear joint past zero degrees into the proper angle. I would raise the rear of the transmission and lower the pinion, or lower the trans and raise the pinion, whichever is more practical. This video helps explain it. http://youtu.be/Idk3BVDVHq4Good luck. Joel
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2160836
09/24/16 01:48 PM
09/24/16 01:48 PM
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Posts: 5,791 Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
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Small and matching angles are the goal for a smooth set up.
Big angles at the pinion end are to roĺl close to zero for leaf spring cars. The more control you have on spring wid up, the less angle is required. Cal tracs do not require big angles like 4-10.
1-2 deg and effort to control wind up is the solution.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: Centerline]
#2161010
09/24/16 07:53 PM
09/24/16 07:53 PM
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crash520
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This is the best guide to setting up the driveline angles for a street driven vehicle I've ever found. These guys are very knowledgeable. I've used their procedures on every car I've ever setup and never had a vibration problem. Power Train Angles this all makes sense however its application primarily is around a linked hot rod rear end, I have leaf springs so wind up has to be taken into account. The vibration is at high speed cruising and its slight, I think I'll raise the trans a smidge at this pint. I will be running street slicks and hitting the 1/4 and 1/8 mile semi regularly with this car so I will need traction control but with good street manners as such
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2161014
09/24/16 07:57 PM
09/24/16 07:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I ain't saying it is (these), but ring/pinion gear whine and driveshaft balance/ujoint issues are distinct possibilities. I have had both of em (seperately) at high speed cruise making that noise. not sure about axle bearings being possible
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2161029
09/24/16 08:23 PM
09/24/16 08:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
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crash520
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RR, I hear what you are saying for sure, the car is not lowered to answer a previous question, that said, I do have a crappy set of gears in it, they are a new set of motive 3.73, done 200 miles the whine is getting slightly better however at a specific speed approx 45-50 very briefly on acceleration and coast its horrific and I can feel the frequency thru the floor so those damn things are getting pulled and Im ordering as set of spicer 3.73's, mesh is spot on per Dr Diff, I had the back lash set at .008" and took it out to 0.012 but that made no difference. as indicated, right now I'll raise the trans a little to balance the Uni angles (this will also get my collector flanges up a little higher). And then I need some traction control device, i will need to control spring wind up for sure
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Re: Just confirming pinion angle please guru's
[Re: crash520]
#2161053
09/24/16 09:20 PM
09/24/16 09:20 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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post what it ends up being
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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