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68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question #2130851
08/12/16 02:05 AM
08/12/16 02:05 AM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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68 Charger with stock 383/727 and AVS. Engine is rebuilt. It runs pretty strong but when cruising.... at light throttle, the engine hunts and runs unevenly. Won't cruise smoothly. I can't tell if it is too lean or too rich. Almost seems like an off idle to primary transition lean condition. Set the floats to raise the fuel level a bit without noticeable change. AVS is rebuilt and looks good throughout. Can the needles cause this? Float level to high (to much fuel in the bowl)? Vacuum is just under 16 inches Hg.

Any ideas on what to go after?

Thanks

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2130868
08/12/16 02:59 AM
08/12/16 02:59 AM
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Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Check that your metering rod pistons are operating smoothly, they can get sticky and cause such transition issues.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2130869
08/12/16 03:00 AM
08/12/16 03:00 AM
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North Carolina
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469runner Offline
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I would look at the timing. Specifically, the vacuum advance is causing the hunting at cruise. Try disconnecting the vacuum advance temporarily and driving it to see the effect.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2130879
08/12/16 03:28 AM
08/12/16 03:28 AM
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NANKET Offline
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If the float level is too high there will be fuel slosh residue marks on the outside of the carb. You will see it. Are you sure you have no vacuum leaks in the system, brake booster, headlights, A/C, etc?

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: NANKET] #2130916
08/12/16 09:44 AM
08/12/16 09:44 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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OE AVS's are lean & maybe a slight vac leak is pushing it over the edge. I would block the metering rod pistons up for a quick check & see what that enrichment does for it


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2130931
08/12/16 10:31 AM
08/12/16 10:31 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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idle jet/mixture screws too lean.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #2130932
08/12/16 10:33 AM
08/12/16 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
Check that your metering rod pistons are operating smoothly, they can get sticky and cause such transition issues.



iagree

I have to pull mine every so often and clean them with carb cleaner. They do get black and gummed up.


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Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: lewtot184] #2130934
08/12/16 10:35 AM
08/12/16 10:35 AM
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69x Offline
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The timing could be advanced to far, I had this issue with a 440 avs, but my choke was also stuck, runs great now.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131000
08/12/16 12:18 PM
08/12/16 12:18 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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Great tips fellas. Thanks.

I had the AVS apart yesterday, before reaching out on moparts. I cleaned up the pistons but not the bores in the carb. The metering rod on the passenger side was worn bad and the spring holding it was out of position and off the rod. I used a set of rods out of a 4429S. I also adjusted the floats to parallel with the top to increase the amount of fuel in the bowls. Overall that whole process seemed to richen the whole shebang up ... which is what I would expect. I adjusted the secondary air horn since I was getting a bog and smoke when matting the pedal.

The air/mixture screws are adjusted very far out. More than they should be in my opinion. When screwed all the way in and adjusted 1 1/2 turns out, the engine won't even start. I figured adjusting the float level and cleaning the emulsification tubes etc, along with fixing the needle/piston would make things better. If anything I am a bit worse with the same hunting problem and now and enrichment problem when throttling up.

I need to mention also that this is an original carb that has the single air bleed in the center top but now also has the two mixture screws in the bottom as well. Also, The emulsification tubes in the carb have only 4 small holes each. That indicates to me that the engine should be pulling a solid fuel mix to the idle circuit slots/holes. I am confused as to why it takes so much outward adjustment to get it to idle right.

I will follow up on the tips provided. any other insight would be appreciated.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131067
08/12/16 01:33 PM
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How much duration in the camshaft?

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131069
08/12/16 01:35 PM
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Don't forget to check your hot idle compensator valve. Block it off either way. I had to do the same to my 4640SA once it stuck open and had my headers glowing red from being too lean. It's a straight manifold vacuum leak


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Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131099
08/12/16 02:06 PM
08/12/16 02:06 PM
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NANKET Offline
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I know this is not how you operate, but please tell us you have fresh gas in the tank and not some years old stinky stuff with additives poured in it to make you feel better.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: NANKET] #2131153
08/12/16 02:58 PM
08/12/16 02:58 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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what I would do now is set all the carb settings back to OE specs


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131168
08/12/16 03:10 PM
08/12/16 03:10 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By 70mopes
Great tips fellas. Thanks.

I had the AVS apart yesterday, before reaching out on moparts. I cleaned up the pistons but not the bores in the carb. The metering rod on the passenger side was worn bad and the spring holding it was out of position and off the rod. I used a set of rods out of a 4429S. I also adjusted the floats to parallel with the top to increase the amount of fuel in the bowls. Overall that whole process seemed to richen the whole shebang up ... which is what I would expect. I adjusted the secondary air horn since I was getting a bog and smoke when matting the pedal.

The air/mixture screws are adjusted very far out. More than they should be in my opinion. When screwed all the way in and adjusted 1 1/2 turns out, the engine won't even start. I figured adjusting the float level and cleaning the emulsification tubes etc, along with fixing the needle/piston would make things better. If anything I am a bit worse with the same hunting problem and now and enrichment problem when throttling up.

I need to mention also that this is an original carb that has the single air bleed in the center top but now also has the two mixture screws in the bottom as well. Also, The emulsification tubes in the carb have only 4 small holes each. That indicates to me that the engine should be pulling a solid fuel mix to the idle circuit slots/holes. I am confused as to why it takes so much outward adjustment to get it to idle right.

I will follow up on the tips provided. any other insight would be appreciated.




Does your gas have ethanol in it ? If so thinking the STOCK calibration from 1968 is going to be right with the piss they pass off as gas today is a pipe dream. Of course the idle mixture screws are out further , the gas is not the same anymore.

You haven't answered the question as to the cam in the motor now , intial timing , what is the vac at idle ?


running up my post count some more .
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: RapidRobert] #2131169
08/12/16 03:10 PM
08/12/16 03:10 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
what I would do now is set all the carb settings back to OE specs


Bad advice without knowing if his gas is E10 ...


running up my post count some more .
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: JohnRR] #2131173
08/12/16 03:14 PM
08/12/16 03:14 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By RapidRobert
what I would do now is set all the carb settings back to OE specs


Bad advice without knowing if his gas is E10 ...
I say that is good advice E10 or no E10 as he is way too rich right now (from his descrip) so it sounds like richening was not the answer


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131210
08/12/16 03:49 PM
08/12/16 03:49 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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it's a stocker... not sure of duration.

92 octane ethanol

Condition occurs with 10 and 15 degrees advance.

Vacuum advance work and doesn't leak.

16 inches of mercury

Mixture needles are not out a little. They are out a lot..... 6 or 7 full turns.

Carb does not have a compensator valve.

There are no vacuum leaks at the carb, vacuum tree or brake booster.

Right now, I am thinking it could be the vacuum advance signal being erratic with the primaries situated where they are when under light cruise. Will try it without and see what happens. may have to adjust the vac adv diaphragm?


Last edited by 70mopes; 08/12/16 04:04 PM.
Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: NANKET] #2131213
08/12/16 03:52 PM
08/12/16 03:52 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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Originally Posted By NANKET
I know this is not how you operate, but please tell us you have fresh gas in the tank and not some years old stinky stuff with additives poured in it to make you feel better.


Clean fuel (ethanol free 92 octane), new tank, lines etc.

Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: 70mopes] #2131254
08/12/16 04:46 PM
08/12/16 04:46 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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So is it 92E10 or 92 no ethanol? I see it listed as both?

Stumble on light cruise could also be the springs under the pistons , the vac signal is probably not the same as original and you could be on the edge and they are moving erratically because of that ? I think ebrock sells the springs separately .


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Re: 68 Charger cruise stumble - AVS carb question [Re: JohnRR] #2131274
08/12/16 05:16 PM
08/12/16 05:16 PM
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Maple Valley, WA
70mopes Offline OP
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It is ethanol free. Sorry for the confusion.

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