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Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108494
07/12/16 02:40 AM
07/12/16 02:40 AM
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Any other weight you can move up front on the car? Not that you need it but we kinda thing for a faster car 56/44 is close to ideal. Are the rear Afco's standard valving deals? Any chance you are topping out the shock in the rear? Id bet it surely is up front. Can you tie the front end down for less travel, if so how much?


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Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108510
07/12/16 03:17 AM
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The car is just set up SO different from how I would do it, that I would hate to make suggestions, because it would likely require starting over on everything.

I would have the shocks tighter all around, tires down to around 5.5, wheelie bars lower and try to make it stay on the tire

Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108516
07/12/16 03:56 AM
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Is there any benefit to measuring driveshaft RPM from the diff yoke, rather than the trans yoke?


Alan Jones
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108517
07/12/16 03:58 AM
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No it is still spinning the same speed. Having it on the slip yoke in a ladder bar or leaf car I imagine this will happen as they move. I am sure Greg's issue with how it is mounted is the fact that he has a Dana and there is usually not room on the yoke for the collar. I ran mine on the driveshaft tube itself. Some yokes have room back there some don't it seems. I have also removed the magnets and embedded them in the u joint as well.

Last edited by Al_Alguire; 07/12/16 03:59 AM.
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: Monte_Smith] #2108552
07/12/16 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
The car is just set up SO different from how I would do it, that I would hate to make suggestions, because it would likely require starting over on everything.

I would have the shocks tighter all around, tires down to around 5.5, wheelie bars lower and try to make it stay on the tire


I am committed to going the direction you and Al are pointing. How well it will work is going to be based on the parts I have and how I go about it. I understand the domino theory; Change one thing and you need to evaluate every thing that change may affect.
Would you start tuning the rear first, leaving the front loose?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: Al_Alguire] #2108557
07/12/16 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Any other weight you can move up front on the car? Not that you need it but we kinda thing for a faster car 56/44 is close to ideal. Are the rear Afco's standard valving deals? Any chance you are topping out the shock in the rear? Id bet it surely is up front. Can you tie the front end down for less travel, if so how much?

No more weight to move without adding some. Standard valving on all the shocks. I will check how much extension is available at the back. On the front, I have almost all the travel available. I can go as short on travel or as stiff on the shocks as I need, I think.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108689
07/12/16 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted By gregsdart
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
The car is just set up SO different from how I would do it, that I would hate to make suggestions, because it would likely require starting over on everything.

I would have the shocks tighter all around, tires down to around 5.5, wheelie bars lower and try to make it stay on the tire


I am committed to going the direction you and Al are pointing. How well it will work is going to be based on the parts I have and how I go about it. I understand the domino theory; Change one thing and you need to evaluate every thing that change may affect.
Would you start tuning the rear first, leaving the front loose?
The front of this car will NEVER need hardly any travel, nor will it need anything approaching lose on shock settings. You should be able to totally lock your front end down with a good shock, meaning on full tight they won't even extend, but sadly most shocks won't do it.

To me, most shock companies are behind the times on valving. Tracks, tires and ability has evolved at a rapid pace in the last few years. I have had to send shocks back from several cars to have "Pro-Mod" valving they call it installed in shocks from cars that certainly don't qualify as near a Pro-Mod level. But they do need much stiffer shock valving than what is considered the norm.

So in your case Greg, I have no idea what front shocks you have, but unless they are fairly new, I am guessing they are too soft, toast, or both. On the rears, ladder bar cars with power are violent. If your shocks don't have Afco's "big gun" valving, they probably need it. If the shocks won't control the housing and the front rate of rise, nothing else matters as far as settings to car. So shocks are first thing to address

I have mentioned before about a front shock test I do on some cars. With car on a floor jack, shock full tight and tires touching ground...........you should be able to quickly raise car with jack and actually get tires off ground. If shocks extend as fast as jack goes up and tires stay on ground.......shocks are toast or valved too light.

Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108700
07/12/16 01:44 PM
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Dang I seem to be just a few minutes late...

I agree with Monte again you should be able to tie the front down with your car and still not have any issues. You have more than enough power with a ladder bar car to get it to work fine with the front tied down and shocks on stiff.

The reason I asked on the rear shocks what valving was getting at what Monte was saying. If they are not at least big gun valving then you need to sen them back and get at least that. We had to go to "Pro Mod" valving in the heads up car and it is a small block ladder bar car, granted a good deal quicker than yours.

Where are the rear shock currently at? How far from stiff on ext and compression in the rear?


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Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108747
07/12/16 02:54 PM
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rear shocks are at about 80 percent of full stiff. About mid range on compression. They are adjusted with a nail or pin in a slot at the top of the shock for extension, a knob on the bottom for compression, to give you an idea of what type they are. I bought them back in about 2002?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108750
07/12/16 03:00 PM
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I think it may be time to upgrade smile I doubt they have the valving to control the power you make now. I would start there along with tying the front down. The get a converter smile


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Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108751
07/12/16 03:00 PM
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This is 2016..........so if you bought them in 2002, that makes them 14 years old and they are surely toast. If that was a typo and you bought them in 2012, making them 4 years old, they are likely STILL toast and need rebuilt..........LOL!!!

Shocks are one of THE most important things on a race car and also one of THE most highly overlooked

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 07/12/16 03:01 PM.
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108754
07/12/16 03:04 PM
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Mid 10 sec. ladder bar car, 3100#. High 9 sec. Camaro, 4 link, 3500#, 56% on the front. Both stick cars. Both with standard 3850 Afcos on full tight. Violent, crushing the tire. Put Big Gun valving on both wound up about halfway. Completely different cars. Got them to where they can actually make some adjustments and see predictable results.

The more I see, the slower/less horsepower my threshold becomes for needing something more than "standard" valving. Especially with some combination of ladder bars and/or 2.40+ low gear 3 speed auto or stick car.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108761
07/12/16 03:14 PM
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Exactly...........there was a comment here recently in another shock thread, that the car in question shouldn't "need" a Pro-Mod valved shock. Well maybe not, but it did and this reflects my thoughts that shock companies for the most part are behind on what they consider a "standard" valving package.

Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108801
07/12/16 04:17 PM
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This is why I call and order straight from the manufacturer. I get parts built to my car.

Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2108805
07/12/16 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted By gregsdart
They are adjusted with a nail or pin in a slot at the top of the shock for extension, a knob on the bottom for compression, to give you an idea of what type they are. I bought them back in about 2002?


That is a 1st gen Afco. Not the same as the current shock. I would check to see what they can even do with those. New Afcos with BG valving are only a little more money over the standards when bought new. I know what we are paying to have current shocks upgraded. Getting what you have fixed may cost so much that you may want to just buy the BG shocks new and forget about it.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2109015
07/12/16 10:24 PM
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Yep 2002, not a typo. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2109050
07/12/16 11:04 PM
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Stiffening the front shocks makes the car slower on snapping the front end up, slowing the weight transfer allowing you to keep tire speed up a little bit longer. Lotta air in those slicks, they gotta be like basket balls! You could knock them down 2 psi real easy.


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Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: Slingshot383] #2109101
07/12/16 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Slingshot383
Stiffening the front shocks makes the car slower on snapping the front end up, slowing the weight transfer allowing you to keep tire speed up a little bit longer. Lotta air in those slicks, they gotta be like basket balls! You could knock them down 2 psi real easy.
I was thinking of 7 psi and see what happens.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: gregsdart] #2109164
07/13/16 01:23 AM
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I would start at no more than 6psi

Re: Data logger graph, interpret the first 60 ft? [Re: Monte_Smith] #2109192
07/13/16 02:33 AM
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iagree


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