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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2105891
07/07/16 09:04 PM
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My .02....

The reason you can't seem to fix the problem is.... There is no problem.

The Comp xe/HL cams are pretty noisy. You'll never get it to run quiet like an old school hyd cam.

If you want something noticeably quieter, try a Summit 6401 cam and lifter kit with the lifters preloaded about .050".


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: JohnRR] #2106102
07/08/16 06:35 AM
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John

although you haven't read all the thread you focused my problem so good! First of all about my stock valve covers, I removed internal baffles to avoid the rockers hitting the steel. Of couse the noise is the same with or without them installed. Too much tolerance inside the lifters ..this is wahy I put 20W50 and actually I noticed oil thicker helps a bit. About noise what makes me scary to test the car is that ticking level is not as uniform as a kinda sewing machine..I heard some (maybe 2 or 3) tickings are louder and I guess those valves loose some degrees in opening-closing too. Anyway I will try to record the sound and to post a short video here, thank you for now.


I Love the right cars ( Mopar) but I live in the wrong place
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2106163
07/08/16 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted By roberto63
John

although you haven't read all the thread you focused my problem so good! First of all about my stock valve covers, I removed internal baffles to avoid the rockers hitting the steel. Of couse the noise is the same with or without them installed. Too much tolerance inside the lifters ..this is wahy I put 20W50 and actually I noticed oil thicker helps a bit. About noise what makes me scary to test the car is that ticking level is not as uniform as a kinda sewing machine..I heard some (maybe 2 or 3) tickings are louder and I guess those valves loose some degrees in opening-closing too. Anyway I will try to record the sound and to post a short video here, thank you for now.


Switching to a thicker oil to TRY to mask the noise is not doing anything for you, if this is a fairly new engine I'd get away from that thick oil, it's not needed.

Listen to fast68plymouth, you don't have a problem.

The last 383 I did for a friend with a custom Comp I got from fast68plymouth was a little noisy, the person I did it for complained about it a little and I told him the only way to fix it was to swap in a stock replacement type cam. I was actually going to use that Summit 6401 cam Dwayne is suggesting, I have used it before in a 383 with a 4 speed and 3.23 gears and it was ok for what it was.


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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2106205
07/08/16 12:53 PM
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My experience with the xe hyd cams in bb mopars, especially with aftermarket rockers is, they are noisier than many solid lifter grinds, and the noise definitely isn't as uniform.
The sound is not particularly confidence inspiring, but that's how they are.
Just run it and live with the noise, or change to a quieter lobe design if you can't get past the noise.

Btw, the upper rpm limit of those lobes with std lifters and the springs you have is somewhere around 5500rpm. It might go a little higher, but if you feel it stop pulling, it started getting unhappy a few hundred rpm lower than where you felt it flatten out.
If you run it higher than that, don't be surprised if you start having issues.

As a side note....... In most cases the noise isn't usually coming from the lifters themselves.
I think if you go to the Rhodes lifters website and look through their info, they have a good description of where the noise comes from when the lifters are are in a somewhat collapsed state.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2107835
07/11/16 12:29 PM
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Dwayne
had I bougth at first a 6401 cam kit for sure now I'd have many hundreds of Euros in my wallet, this is not the main thing but it does have a sense for me nowdays..but before to get the xe275HL out the car I want to try some more test on road.. this saturday I had about half an hour ride on street and the noise sounded a little more uniform, noticeable but not loud. It was very hot here (38C°)and the good news engine doesn't get hot and oil pressure remained good, this was good news. Instead I was everything but impressed from the power these kind of cams are supposed to deliver..before this I tried a thumper cam ( 279th7 - int.lift 0.486 ehx lift 0.473 - duration 227-241 advertsed 279-296 - certerline 102 -lobe separation 107 ) that was lazier at low mid revvings but well alive around 4000. Honestly I cannot say more at the moment, I experienced quite a bog with secondary opening ( EDL Thunder 800AVS) evn with electric pump feeding the carb, so I need to do more test... At the moment thank you so much!


I Love the right cars ( Mopar) but I live in the wrong place
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2107851
07/11/16 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By roberto63
Honestly I cannot say more at the moment, I experienced quite a bog with secondary opening ( EDL Thunder 800AVS) evn with electric pump feeding the carb, so I need to do more test... At the moment thank you so much!


Have you adjusted the air door ? The carb will require some tuning .

Last edited by JohnRR; 07/12/16 11:14 AM.

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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: Supercuda] #2107933
07/11/16 03:11 PM
07/11/16 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Supercuda
Originally Posted By GTX MATT
For what its worth I've never heard of someone bending a pushrod because their lifters were pumped up. Just offering another opinion for the OP.


Now you can no longer claim that. I will tell you it's happened to me. A filled hydraulic lifter is not easily compressible, you have to let it bleed down as you tight down on it. You reef down too quick on the rocker and the lifter will not bleed down fast enough and you will bend the pushrod, BTDT, and it'll pop out on you when you are leaving the doctor's office with a sick kick and zero oil pressure because the lifter is now setting in the valley and all the oil is dumping back into the crankcase. That is why Comp tells you not to do that. But hey, what does Comp's experience and engineering mean against an opinion anyway.


You are not any more likely to bend a pushrod when installing the rockers on an engine with pumped up hydraulic lifters than you are installing them on an engine with a mechanical cam/lifters. If you bend a pushrod installing rocker arms - hyd or solid cam/lifters - YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.


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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2108173
07/11/16 09:30 PM
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Roberto, I'm not really suggesting you "should" change to the Summit cam, I'm just saying it will be quieter.
The XE/HL cams make good power up to the limiting rpm of the lifters(usually around 5500rpm).
If you're happy with the performance, then you'll just have to get used to the noise.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: Evil Spirit] #2108359
07/12/16 12:23 AM
07/12/16 12:23 AM
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Its a TRAP!
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Originally Posted By Evil Spirit
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Originally Posted By GTX MATT
For what its worth I've never heard of someone bending a pushrod because their lifters were pumped up. Just offering another opinion for the OP.


Now you can no longer claim that. I will tell you it's happened to me. A filled hydraulic lifter is not easily compressible, you have to let it bleed down as you tight down on it. You reef down too quick on the rocker and the lifter will not bleed down fast enough and you will bend the pushrod, BTDT, and it'll pop out on you when you are leaving the doctor's office with a sick kick and zero oil pressure because the lifter is now setting in the valley and all the oil is dumping back into the crankcase. That is why Comp tells you not to do that. But hey, what does Comp's experience and engineering mean against an opinion anyway.


You are not any more likely to bend a pushrod when installing the rockers on an engine with pumped up hydraulic lifters than you are installing them on an engine with a mechanical cam/lifters. If you bend a pushrod installing rocker arms - hyd or solid cam/lifters - YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

Like my buddy who was putting pushrods in a 06 Malibu.. me: "you making sure you're putting the longer pushrods on the intake?: Buddy: "yup". Me after he started the engine: "dumbass".


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: DARTH V8Я] #2108377
07/12/16 12:32 AM
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So your buddy already knew the exhausts were the longer rods then right? smile

Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2108402
07/12/16 12:42 AM
07/12/16 12:42 AM
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Its a TRAP!
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What I say.. intake? Who's the dumbass now. LOL.


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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: JohnRR] #2108523
07/12/16 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By roberto63
Honestly I cannot say more at the moment, I experienced quite a bog with secondary opening ( EDL Thunder 800AVS) evn with electric pump feeding the carb, so I need to do more test... At the moment thank you so much!


Have you adjusted the air door ? The will require some tuning .


I set the air door adjusting the screw as suggested as default setting, I must test again to see if I set it too weak or too hard to open...also I have a bad smell of unburned fuel at idling..I'm not a pro , not a mechanic, so I need time to understand what the best combination of rod -spring jet etc....


I Love the right cars ( Mopar) but I live in the wrong place
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2108524
07/12/16 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Roberto, I'm not really suggesting you "should" change to the Summit cam, I'm just saying it will be quieter.
The XE/HL cams make good power up to the limiting rpm of the lifters(usually around 5500rpm).
If you're happy with the performance, then you'll just have to get used to the noise.


Dwayne, my plan is (during the weekend) to try to get rid of the bog with carb tuning and try to see the 5000 rpm on the dash tachometer. Only after this test I'll take the decision if putting the word END to this damn cam or not. All is about the feeling of power, just the feeling ( no clocked times) , if the power is not much more than the Thumper cam , for sure I decide for the latter , it was very quite good high revv and impressive idling sound too. Will update soon


I Love the right cars ( Mopar) but I live in the wrong place
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2108556
07/12/16 09:35 AM
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just to let you know i replaced my lifters with a set of pro magnums set them at 1/4 turn after zero cold with aluminum heads and all is good real good

Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2108593
07/12/16 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted By roberto63
Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By roberto63
Honestly I cannot say more at the moment, I experienced quite a bog with secondary opening ( EDL Thunder 800AVS) evn with electric pump feeding the carb, so I need to do more test... At the moment thank you so much!


Have you adjusted the air door ? The carb will require some tuning .


I set the air door adjusting the screw as suggested as default setting, I must test again to see if I set it too weak or too hard to open...also I have a bad smell of unburned fuel at idling..I'm not a pro , not a mechanic, so I need time to understand what the best combination of rod -spring jet etc....


You need to tune the carb, it is not the right setup for your particular engine, or really any engine for that matter, out of the box.

If you have a bog when on the secondaries opening then the spring is probably adjusted too tight.

The engine is not going to run well to you get that carb setup properly, along with your ignition timing .


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Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: roberto63] #2108742
07/12/16 02:43 PM
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John, my experience with carbs that have spring loaded air doors is, if it bogs, the spring is probably set too loose.

All that should happen if the door spring is set too tight is you wouldn't get the door all the way open at max rpm.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2109257
07/13/16 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
John, my experience with carbs that have spring loaded air doors is, if it bogs, the spring is probably set too loose.

All that should happen if the door spring is set too tight is you wouldn't get the door all the way open at max rpm.


Yes .. from I felt driving the car the bog is caused from starving fuel, so I guess my air doors open too early allowing a too much air mass, just my feeling-


I Love the right cars ( Mopar) but I live in the wrong place
Re: hydraulic lifters bleeding down on 440 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2109290
07/13/16 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
John, my experience with carbs that have spring loaded air doors is, if it bogs, the spring is probably set too loose.

All that should happen if the door spring is set too tight is you wouldn't get the door all the way open at max rpm.


You know more than I ever will when it comes to tuning the Carters , or any carb in general, so I'm making a mental note of that ...

Thanks.


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